00:01.63 archaeoteacup Hello and welcome to episode 7 I'll start that again because it's episode 17 hello and welcome to episode 17 of tea break time travel I am your host Matilda Zebre and today I'm savvoring a roy boss caramel tea because you know the nights are getting longer. The mornings are getting cooler. So I'm trying to embrace the ah. Autumn spirit with some with some nice caramel and joining me on my t-break today is Andrew Marion Jones I hope that I've pronounced that correctly I realized I forgot to ask for a pronunciation check before we started who is a professor of archaeology. It was good who is professor of archaeology at the university of. 00:29.40 Andrew Jones Um, this that's more or less right? Yeah yeah. 00:37.28 archaeoteacup Home. Thank you for joining me today. Andrew are you ah also on tea this morning. Yeah. 00:41.70 Andrew Jones Yes, so um, as a British person My kind of blood is entirely made of tea I start the day with a English breakfast but I've now switched to. 00:58.32 Andrew Jones Camemoile. 01:00.11 archaeoteacup Especially because do I detect a slight northern twang to your accent. Yeah, so ah, so so indeed the the home of tea in in the north of england one could argue a camel mile though. Oh that's quite different you you need to to be relaxed today. 01:01.72 Andrew Jones Yeah, yeah, Liverpool Yeah yeah, exactly. 01:13.82 Andrew Jones Um, it's it's yeah, it's some. It's having moved to Sweden recently teas this selection of teas of are very different hair so green tea and camar seem to be. 01:28.48 archaeoteacup Oh. 01:31.80 Andrew Jones Um, the the tea's most preferable to me there I they do do Rbosh and um and other teas but I for some reason that the blend of rubbosh tea I can during rubbosh in. 01:38.34 archaeoteacup Ah, ah. 01:49.98 Andrew Jones Britain in Britain but in Sweden does something strange to me so they were so umm on cameramar this morning. 01:52.62 archaeoteacup Ah, fair enough it fair enough. It is interesting indeed how all the different because I lived in the Netherlands for a long time and there is well they have a lot of infusion black teas. So if it's a mango tea. It's actually black tea with some mango in it rather than a mango tea. So. 02:08.97 Andrew Jones Um, yeah. 02:11.76 archaeoteacup Interesting other different different things. Well ah, hope for hope that you're feeling nice and chill and relax then with your loyalty. Um, so as you are a professor of archeology or have a lot of experience ah under your belt in archaeological research. But how did you actually first get into the topic of archaeology. 02:15.83 Andrew Jones Um, yeah, yeah. 02:30.15 Andrew Jones Um, kind of accidentally I actually started out life was went to University to study science and really didn't enjoy the science very much. 02:32.27 archaeoteacup That happens a lot. 02:39.47 archaeoteacup So go ahead. 02:46.85 Andrew Jones And went on an archaeological dig which was run by the scottish field school so I went to university in Scotland when which was run by the scottish field school. Um, which is a kind of voluntary organization. 02:57.18 archaeoteacup Um. 03:05.69 Andrew Jones We were digging a picturesic site on in 5 So I was actually at university in Dundee and we just crossed the cross the bridge over to 5 and and since then I decided around that time we decided actually. 03:07.64 archaeoteacup Um, ah. 03:19.49 archaeoteacup Um. 03:25.11 Andrew Jones Ah, really didn't enjoy studying biochemistry. Um, so I so I managed to switch into studying archeology. Um at Glasgow university. 03:27.49 archaeoteacup Fair enough. 03:41.30 Andrew Jones The scottish system is very yeah, it's it's like the american system you can major minor and you can pick up grades who are done several years in Dundee as a scientist and was able to kind of carry. 03:57.17 archaeoteacup Um. 04:00.35 Andrew Jones Was great over to Glasgow which was really good and since I started I started studying Glasgow 1989 and since then you haven't stopped. 04:03.00 archaeoteacup That's very useful. Yeah. 04:12.57 archaeoteacup Ah. 04:18.14 Andrew Jones As an archaeologist you know once I discovered it I Absolutely loved it and I gravitated I think it you know having studied the scientists I gravitated towards the. 04:19.84 archaeoteacup He. 04:35.52 Andrew Jones Humanities side of the subject so doing archaeological theory was was really exciting to me and you know that that's pretty much where I've stayed I discovered archaeological Theory discovered French Philosophy Continental force. 04:38.44 archaeoteacup Um. 04:48.93 archaeoteacup Um. 04:53.79 Andrew Jones Philosophy and you know kept kept exploring that. 04:58.76 archaeoteacup Yeah, no amazing and it's very interesting indeed to hear that your because we've had a couple of people on who sort of had an interest in 1 subject but weren't really feeling it and then found archeology but combined them. But it's interesting to hear that you indeed went in completely a different direction to. 05:13.94 Andrew Jones Well I did I mean funly I did use the biochemistry for my Ph D So I did do ah Gcms Gas Chromatography Mass spectrometry. 05:19.20 archaeoteacup Okay. 05:31.33 Andrew Jones Analysis of lipids in in Pottery Neolithic Pottery which is super scientific. Um, so I kind of you know, always had that. 05:36.12 archaeoteacup Ah, but that does sound very scientific indeed. Yeah. 05:46.21 Andrew Jones Had that in the in the kind of background but having done that in my ph d I you know and so that was quite intense over a kind of 4 year period I decided actually I'm gonna shift towards. 06:00.21 archaeoteacup Um. 06:01.42 archaeoteacup And yeah, so that's interesting and I mean well I guess we'll we'll come back to that a bit later but it was there anything in particular that drew you to the the archeology of art specifically rather than I mean that's because it's such a broad range of theories and and. 06:04.60 Andrew Jones So being the aajeva instead. 06:20.56 archaeoteacup That kind of topic. 06:20.98 Andrew Jones Um I guess I'd always again through the theory I'd always had an interest in art and while I was at Glasgow I I so I was living with artists. 06:26.37 archaeoteacup Are. 06:36.35 archaeoteacup Who. 06:38.20 Andrew Jones Whole time. So all my flatmates were attending Glasgow school of art. So I spent lots of time talking. Um highb blown french theory with there with a bunch of artists. Um, and. 06:55.50 archaeoteacup Ah, okay, yeah. 06:57.99 Andrew Jones Since then I've ah yeah, just kind of I mean I've always had an interest in contemporary and just kept kept that going and and sort of varied from the to the. 07:07.35 archaeoteacup Um. 07:16.91 Andrew Jones The stuff I was studying for the Ph D was groovedware from the site of barnhouse up in orney and groovedware as you may know is decorated with. 07:26.68 archaeoteacup Um. 07:35.31 archaeoteacup Um, okay, are. 07:35.55 Andrew Jones Cavalliny designs which which we also found in Irish Passage sims and actually ended up getting more interested in the the designs on the poetry than not on the. 07:50.48 archaeoteacup On the lipid. Ah, that's very nice very enough. Well we'll go I think we'll go into that a bit more later but for now as this is indeed a ah time travel teabrick if you could travel back in time where exactly would you go and why. 07:51.18 Andrew Jones Ah, contents other ports. Yeah. 08:05.74 Andrew Jones Well I again I think probably the archeology art would be my main guide my main area of interest. So I mean somewhere like Nasca would be pretty cool. Um. 08:16.47 archaeoteacup Um, the. 08:21.87 Andrew Jones Just to see how those masculine were made and to completely finally dispel Eric Voykin and the idea of spaceships landing in per um and. 08:33.57 archaeoteacup Leave. 08:40.88 Andrew Jones Chev de juta in Peru would also be pretty cool have've written little bits about it in in general kind of books and that's it I kind of amazing. It's it's like something out of Indiana Jones it's a jungle temple. 08:48.28 archaeoteacup Is it. 08:59.20 archaeoteacup Um, oh Wow I Think who. 08:59.75 Andrew Jones With all these amazing calf designs on the exterior and they're probably taking extremely potent psychedelics before so they p ni shits are kind of entering the the temple and the pit. Probably feeding them with these you know, ridiculous ihoke typepe psychedelics and you've got priests in the temple using the acoustics of the temple to create and. 09:22.40 archaeoteacup Um, lucigens Ah okay. 09:38.32 Andrew Jones Ghostly sound and thises all the archological interpretation but it'd be lovely to actually see what was happening during the creation of the you know this's got amazing reliefs carved reliefs of Shimanic hybrid kind of. 09:41.97 archaeoteacup Um. 09:45.41 archaeoteacup Yeah. 09:51.18 archaeoteacup Yeah. 09:57.47 Andrew Jones Human animal figures. So yeah, yeah, exactly yeah. 10:00.50 archaeoteacup Although you'd hope if you were there, you wouldn't be 1 of the you know initiates you'd have to definitely take a step back that might be a bit of a harrowing experience from the sounds a bit. Okay. Well no, that sounds ah sounds incredible. It's definitely very different as well to any yeah, any other suggestions that we've had so far on the podcar going down to jungle temples in Peru so looking forward to that journey? Um, but for today. Thank you very much for joining me on this t break and before we talk more about today's object 10:18.52 Andrew Jones Yeah. 10:28.53 archaeoteacup We're first going to journey back to around 303000 sorry bc to the area that we now know as aberdeensha in Northern Scotland it's early morning the first rays of sunshine are only just beginning to pierce through the thick mist that's managed to roll its way all the way up through the valleys from the distant ocean the dern dawn bird song is muffled. Doesn't quite cover the sound of rustling footsteps suddenly some figures emerge from the mist wrapped up in warm in an outer layer of furs thick leather boots. The insulating hay lining sticking out slightly at the top as they tread their way heavily through the Dew Laden Grass one of the figures stumble slightly lots of rabbits around here. Almost falling over the bags that are slung across their back tip out their contents. The group stops and helps them to gather their fallen items searching through the tall grass for all the objects before heading on but there's something that they've forgotten hidden amongst the ferns just off the path is a ball so dark in color. It's almost invisible in the shadows. As we look closer. We see that actually it's made from stone and has been carved into four knobs decorated with beautiful swirling patterns and today we are looking at for those of you who have been listening into this before my absolute favorite object. Um, the carved stone balls of Scotland and we'll get into the details soon. But first as always I wanted to have a look at the most asked questions on the internet about this object's courtesy of Google search weirdly, there weren't actually that many sort of autofill ah questions in Google I guess people don't know about these objects or aren't quite as interested. Maybe as I am better the the two sort of main ones that came up. Um, first one was. 12:00.77 archaeoteacup Of course, what are the carved stone balls and I guess we'll get into the details in in the next section but perhaps sort of ah a basic description Andrew or sort of ah the the kind of base facts of these these balls. 12:12.23 Andrew Jones Okay, so there they're um, as you as you say they are dark stone and they're mainly kind of made of really tough stones like granites really hot hard stones to carve and. 12:29.69 Andrew Jones They carved sometimes with the same kind of curvilinear designs I was talking about earlier. Um, and there's 2 sizes of balls ones about seventy millimeters ones just over a hundred millimeters in size. Um, and they can be carved in lots of different ways you said series of kind of knobs on them but they can also have balls with a whole series of knobs almost like um. 12:56.22 archaeoteacup Are. 13:06.14 archaeoteacup Is. 13:06.39 Andrew Jones Looking like hedgehogs or something or ah, um, you know Braspberry something like that. Um, so there there's you know a real variety of of ah shapes of these things. Um. 13:22.71 archaeoteacup Um. 13:25.32 Andrew Jones Yeah, and I mean in terms of use. Do you want me to talk about that now. Yeah, yeah, that's quite a long. Yeah, it's a long discussion. 13:30.26 archaeoteacup Maybe we'll get to that later because I feel like that will be a ah a deeper topic of of discussion. Um, but just ah to quick leave rec clarify those so are they always decorated in some way or do you also have just balls. 13:38.87 Andrew Jones Um, no, no that they're not always decorated There's quite a lot of them are playing in actual facts. The research I've done on them. Shows that you know an enormous number actually completely playing so one of the things we did was visit a whole series of museums in Scotland and England um, and. In museum collections actually could a lot of playing balls. Um, which were kind of unrecognized with often labeled as cannonballs or you know post-medieval. 14:33.16 archaeoteacup Um, okay. 14:35.64 Andrew Jones You know? so we actually did a lot of work trying to show these things were actually neolithic. Um, so there's a I mean the idea of someone dropping a ball out of their bag. That's only kind of partially carved is exactly. 14:39.99 archaeoteacup Yeah. 14:55.63 Andrew Jones I Think what was happening quite a lot the time. Yeah. 14:58.37 archaeoteacup Oh exit. Well I mean we did go back in time and see it happening so that ah it makes sense and I mean they're called the the scottish carved stone balls are they only found in Scotland then and. 15:09.21 Andrew Jones Um, know that I mean they're mainly found in Scotland but they are also found in Ireland and Northern Island and the republic um, and. 15:11.70 archaeoteacup So. 15:23.26 Andrew Jones There are also some examples in Northern England um as far south as Yorkshire Britlington think um, there's even 1 in Scandinavia this one in Norway. 15:31.78 archaeoteacup Um, okay. 15:41.88 Andrew Jones Which I haven't never seen I'm kind of hoping to visit at some point. Yeah, well, it's in Yes, it's saying Bur it. So it's a fair way. Yeah. 15:42.14 archaeoteacup Um, ah. 15:48.68 archaeoteacup Ah, now we know where you went to Stockholm. 15:53.88 archaeoteacup Getting getting closer true I mean yeah, do that It's a long long countrys and ah are the calve stumbles are they always founcier I mean in our in our one they're sort of dropped out of a a bag and a lying in the on the ground sort of ah and. 16:00.47 Andrew Jones Here. 16:07.70 Andrew Jones A. 16:12.53 archaeoteacup And a loan find I Guess a loan find are they found in usually particular site types or are is it varied. 16:18.85 Andrew Jones So they're really fiendishly difficult things to study because most of them are you know, straight finds learn finds and they hardly any of them have. 16:30.16 archaeoteacup And. 16:36.61 archaeoteacup Oh okay. 16:36.79 Andrew Jones Archaeological contacts so there are a few from kisst in Aberdeensia but excuse the best um the best contexts they come from are actually Neo thick. 16:56.34 Andrew Jones Settlements in Orkney and in the hebrides. So it for okay. 16:58.37 archaeoteacup Here. 17:04.38 archaeoteacup Which which relates to the next question actually which which was who made the carved stoneballs and when so they're they're sort of mainly dated to the neolithic them. 17:15.90 Andrew Jones Yeah, so they um, theyre dated to the neolithic and we now have much clearer sense of the dates I'm just gonna have to look this up because I've actually written about this and. 17:30.38 archaeoteacup Are. 17:32.37 Andrew Jones Can't remember the precise dates. We came up with um, but with it with Bayesian analysis. We can be a lot more precise about their. Ah. 17:51.40 Andrew Jones Where are we? um. 17:58.39 Andrew Jones Um, yeah, um, twenty ninth or twenty Eighth century calvc is roughly is when they date date from. 18:09.28 archaeoteacup Okay. 18:15.87 archaeoteacup Hello. 18:17.83 Andrew Jones So they're um and down to around about the twenty Sixth century k bc so this quarterd is a short kind of period of time which they made I mean a mere four hundred years. 18:32.84 archaeoteacup That's really interesting. Yeah Wow And and how many are there How many sort of examples. Do you know have been found. 18:35.97 Andrew Jones Um, there's over. It's that's actually a really difficult question is at least 400 um and depends on the literature you look at um, Dorothy Marshall who first. 18:45.63 archaeoteacup Um. 18:50.62 archaeoteacup Um. 18:55.53 Andrew Jones First kind of catalogt them at the national museum of Scotland had of 400 but since then more have been found in excavations. So the big nessa broer nesa broker excavation. 19:08.65 archaeoteacup Um, who. 19:13.92 Andrew Jones Um. 19:18.88 Andrew Jones Bit found Karfsstone ball and there's other excavations in hotney that have have found kafstone balls quite recently. Um, and then they're also been found. They're also being excavated from museums so one of the. 19:21.10 archaeoteacup Um, yeah. 19:28.48 archaeoteacup Um, okay oh I demonstrate. 19:36.87 Andrew Jones Interesting articles by yeah, Alan Samwell some years ago was was this cal symbol ball that he discovered because it'd actually been on tv had'd been on a Tv program someone had shown it from Bromley Museum in London. Um, and he was he was researching cups and balls in the national museum of Scotland and he'd never seen this one. Um, so you know balls are appearing from from museum museum collections. All the time. So at least 400. 20:05.78 archaeoteacup Here. 20:15.51 Andrew Jones I would say is is a reasonable estimate for how many there are. 20:17.92 archaeoteacup Okay, here. Yeah yeah, oh no, that's fascinating. Well thank you for that little introduction I think we've sort of covered Google's most search questions now then but let's have a very quick break and we will be back soon. 20:28.86 Andrew Jones Okay.