00:00.00 archpodnet Just checking that it's picking up. Yes, good hello and welcome to episode 13 of t break time travel I am your host Matilda Zebre and today I'm savvoring a penna callaity the sun's out so I thought even though it's only. ° why not pretend I'm on a tropical beach and have a lovely penicicalard tea alcohol free of course and joining me on my teabreak today is Graham Taylor who is a professional potter specializing in historic and prehistoric replicas and you might recognize the name as one of the talents behind the company potted history. So welcome Graham thank you for joining me. Are you also on tea this morning. 00:37.28 sarah I am I am on tea. Although although generally I'm a bit of a coffee man. But ah I think the doctors told me to ease off on that. So I'm gently gently on tea this morning. But. 00:46.50 archpodnet Fair enough fair enough I imagine though black tea If you're a coffee person or no. 00:51.33 sarah Ah know it's ah I guess ah it's actually it's actually the yeah boring old sort of builders tea as it were. 00:59.31 archpodnet They go classic a classic as well. You know we all have to we have to go back to the good old builders tea every so often. Um, but so yes, thank you very much for joining me. Um, and as I mentioned you are of course one of the main the main talents behind. Ah. 01:03.90 sarah That's the one That's the one. 01:15.64 archpodnet Potted history which I'm sure people are very aware of you've created Replicas for all kinds of shows and institutions and everything but I'm curious were you always interested in the Replica side of things so prehistory or history or was it something that developed out of an experience with pottery. 01:34.62 sarah It? yeah, it really developed right back when I was a student back but well just after Julius Caesar got to Britain I think it was ah and a nineteenseventy. Um, ah ah, quite a while ago. Um, yeah I was always interested in the fact that as a potter I was. Pursuing a craft which had routes which went far into the distant past I wasn't really aware at that stage of just how far into the distant past that went but ah I started to sort of research. 02:05.72 sarah Ancient Pottery with ah with a view to utilizing some of the things that I learned within my sort of contemporary craft and that sent me off to reading sort of reports of digs and Journals etc and so often with the archaeological research at that time. I would find myself sitting reading it going? No,. That's not right? Um, so it sort of sent me off doing the research myself and doing the experiments. Um that developed from there. 02:36.76 archpodnet I find that really interesting I've spoken a lot with people. Um because I work a lot with Exxar the experimental archaeology society and I speak a lot with people who had a similar experience indeed that they started off as as a crafter predominantly shall we say so you know specialized in a craft or specialized in a technology and then. Indeed would read archaeological reports ago. They have no idea what they're talking. Do you see that there's an improvement in that or is it still quite a divide between people who know the technology and the kind of scholars or academics. Shall we say. 03:10.52 sarah Ah, yeah I mean there is in in some areas. Although there are so many new courses in experimental archeology etc that have come along that there's There's a greater sort of rapport if you like between. 03:16.97 archpodnet A. 03:26.73 sarah Practitioners and archaeologists these days and I currently work with quite a lot of archaeologists and as you know institutions. Ah that do understand the value of ah discussing these things. So it's It's a much better situation than it was when I started off. 03:34.82 archpodnet Ah, Z. 03:43.78 archpodnet Yeah, oh that's good. That's good to know and I'm curious when you were doing for example training in in ceramics in pottery. Do you learn indeed the kind of historic techniques as well. Um, as part of that training or is it something that you have to kind of search out for yourself. 03:58.13 sarah And well certainly when I did it was very much something you had to search out for yourself. Um, yeah, the the whole emphasis back in the 1970 s where really was on the sort of leech tradition of of pottery having been brought to you know the the. 04:02.76 archpodnet Okay. 04:18.50 sarah Current sort of craft pottery having been brought to Britain by Bernard Leech having popped out to Japan to teach them how to do etchings and come back as a potter and it it was. It was very much this sort of studio pottery ethos which did to some extent look back but not. 04:26.73 archpodnet Um, okay. 04:29.95 archpodnet And. 04:35.76 sarah Not to any huge degree. 04:39.33 archpodnet No, very interesting and ah speaking about looking back I mean we are called t-brake time travel this podcast. So I of course have to ask if you could travel back in time. Where would you go and why. 04:51.70 sarah Ah, oh loie that now that it it is a really interesting question I I do remember Lizz now I think it was Julian Richards once asked? Um, but he being one of the experts on stonehenge he was asked that you know how he would feel if he was transported back. 04:55.26 archpodnet He. 05:09.54 sarah To stonehenge at its at its height and he said he thought you'd probably just stand and laugh at how wrong we'd got it all. So yeah. 05:16.14 archpodnet Yes, exactly Well this is what I always say at this segment usually I sort of say I'm not sure. Actually if I'd want to go back because you know what if indeed we were all completely wrong or it's just really boring. You know there response is it. It's like ah. 05:27.73 sarah Yeah, yeah, well well this is true I mean I think it would be ah for for me, it would be the bronze age. Um, you know? Ah I I love sort of British Neolithic Pottery ah ah the the british certainly british iron age pottery deteriorates dramatically. Um, the sort of pre-roman invasion ah bronze age seems to be this blossoming of of creativity etc. So I think that you know the the sort of bronze age would be the place I would want to be and the time I would want to be. Um, although I suspect that any of us heading back to any point in the past but our survival would be it probably counted in minutes or out. So um. 06:09.54 archpodnet Yes, probably I mean that's true I should also I should always add the caveat to this question of you know, assuming that we won't just die as soon as we have assuming Maybe that's an observer as it in a little bubble I guess. 06:19.60 sarah Contract something yes indeed but yes I think it is it. It is definitely the bronze age because you do see the sort of blossoming ah of people who are obviously. Exercising some level of their own creativity certainly within sort of the the later bronze age here in Britain. It's ah possibly you know we're looking at beaker culture and possibly what one's looking at is very constrained rules in the early very early bronze age. But I think it it loosens up later on. 06:57.66 archpodnet Okay, that's very interesting because indeed you sort of know at least I'm remembering back to my good old undergrad days and the sort of classic stereotype that you learn about the Neolithic is oh and this is when pottery started and you know this is when we start to see Pottery develop and everything but it's in the Bronze age actually that we start to see the. Sort of more stylistic stuff develop um or was that already kind of growing during the neolithic as well. Okay. 07:21.41 sarah Not so much in Britain I mean we do you know we do get sort of what what they call peterbow press wears and things like that and and then grooved where so so so there is there is decoration happening happening on the pots and it's developing it. It seems to me that what you. 07:33.55 archpodnet This is. 07:40.12 sarah Particularly see in the bronze ages connectivity. You see ah links with the continent and people bringing new ideas and but into Britain I mean um, really, that's that's in a way. What pi is all about, but but certainly um, you can see the links but. 07:42.35 archpodnet Then. 07:57.60 sarah From where I am in the far north of Britain we've got influence coming down from what is now Scotland and and that got to Scotland through Ireland and it may have got to Ireland from ah from the Iberian Peninsula so yeah you know you've got this these sort of. Ah, maritime links I suppose but that are being illustrated within within the pottery. 08:18.65 archpodnet I Which I always. And yeah, enjoy I We'll talk about this a little bit actually more detailed properly but indeed I Always love that that sort of evidence that you have indeed that people did actually travel around because I think so many people assume that people Inry history just kind of stayed in their little place and. Didn't really go anywhere or interact with other cultures. So I Always like indeed when you can see something a bit more tangible that shows actually no like this. There was cultural interaction going on. 08:47.21 sarah Yeah, absolutely absolutely. and and I mean I have to say that that there is evidence for that before before the bronze of each here in Britain. But again here in scotty sort of ah the english side of the scottish borders but up into the scottish borders. 08:51.34 archpodnet Next. 09:03.10 sarah 1 of the things that's often found from the Neolithic is jadite axes and the the the jadite that from which those axes are made can be traced back to a single valley in the alps and you go yeah, that's you know that's really quite remarkable. 09:13.33 archpodnet Wow yeah, definitely people going on holiday to the alps you know hiking trips then picking up some Jade coming back home. Yeah, exactly that's probably how it happened right? yeah. 09:20.29 sarah Me you bring back? a nice throughve air. Yeah yeah. 09:30.89 archpodnet But great. Well thank you very much for joining me on my t break today and before we look in further detail at today's object let us first journey back to around 2300 Bc to Southern England just a stone's throw excuse the pun from the towering monument that we now call Stonehenge. It's a cold and overcast day and yet as we look around. We can see a group of figures gathered around a nearby clearing all of them engaged in some kind of activity. One of the figures is kneading together a fist-sized ball of clay working it into a smooth consistency and expert hands at some point the clay begins to take shape. Turned around and around between pinching fingers and thumb until it starts to resemble what looks almost like a bell once the figure seems satisfied with the shape they reach into a small pouch at their waist and pull out a flattened piece of bone which has been carved to resemble a short toothed comb settling down the figure continues to turn the bell-shaped object on one hand. Round and around using the other to create a continuous dotted decoration with the bone tool which eventually then winds its way around and down the clay. Once this decoration is complete. The object is put carefully aside to dry and a fresh bowl of clay is taken up in hand now. Graham might now tell me that I've got this all completely wrong, but it's in my imagination I'm allowing myself a bit of artistic license here. So today we are looking at the beaker more specifically the bell beaker um, but we may touch on some other beaker types as well. 10:56.67 archpodnet And we'll get into the details soon. But first I always like to have a look at the most ask questions on the internet courtesy of Google search autofill. There weren't actually that many for bellbeakers surprisingly I thought there would be more I don't know why I guess but um, the most common one that came up was what were bell beakers used for. I don't know if you can enlighten us on this at all Graham. 11:16.25 sarah Well, ah I mean as the name suggests Beak. Ah we we assume that they're drinking vessels. They seem to be drinking vessels. They ah the the lips are sort of formed in a nice way that you that you can drink from um, of course the. Most of them. We find from burials so they are sort of involved in bronze age funery practice and of course I mean that's quite important in itself in that it it does Mark a change in in burial practice. We're certainly here in Britain. Um, but yes I think certainly they are drinking vessels and to judge from things like the amesbury archer where he's been buried with several of them. He's going to the afterlife equipped for a party. Yeah yeah, absolutely. Ah. 12:01.77 archpodnet It which you know we all want at some point take some beakers. It'll save on the the. What's it called the deposit that you need to pay. You know when you go up to a bar and get the the cup. You just take your beaker with you which sounds good. 12:17.77 sarah Ah, absolutely um. 12:18.90 archpodnet Okay, excellent. Well so indeed that would be interesting to ah to see when we travel back in the past to see if they were indeed just drinking vessels. Um, and the second question that came up was what does belllbeca mean I'm not sure what this question means to be honest, but I I didn't know I thought it came up a few times so I thought. I'll include it here and we'll see if we can come up with something. 12:37.69 sarah The will think yeah but I mean Belllbe is an interesting interesting term because to me they don't really look that much like a bell but you know ah so sort of like a bell. Um, ah but I suppose they look like some kind of tyrolean sort of Cowbell of or something like maybe. 12:45.26 archpodnet No no. 12:56.67 sarah Um, yeah, ah, but I mean that that is where it comes from it comes from this idea that these are a particular form of vessel with which you are bellshaped um and certainly they do Mark quite a difference from what goes before them. There. Usually more finely made. Ah they are ah of a size generally which is I suppose ah, you usually about a good liter of beer I think would if if if we're thinking that they were drinking like hey 1 over yeah, some well certainly the ones in Britain are they're there. 13:24.63 archpodnet Really I didn't realize they were that big. Okay oh makes sense. 13:31.84 sarah They you you look at them. You look at them and you think you think oh you know it's a pike pot. But when you start to fill the dar things they yeah they they take quite a serious amount so they they? um yes, that are continental in origin. Of course they're using litus. Um, um, but. Ah, but and some of some of them quite frankly. Ah, um, the ones the the one from Bush Barrow ah in in wilshire there. They yeah is massive I mean theyre huge and may well have been intended to be passed around I spent quite a long time living in Las Sutu in Southern Africa where ah. Sort of the social beer-drinking tradition was to have a very large pot which got passed around everybody in the group. So maybe that that was part of the part of the whole thing. But yes I mean basically it means a drinking vessel. 14:17.38 archpodnet Okay, yeah. 14:26.38 sarah Um, of the very early bronze age or chalkalithic. Of course as we've got now we've got the copper age because ah they come into Britain certainly along with the first metals and the first metals to arrive here are golden copper and only later is it bronze. 14:30.14 archpodnet Is. 14:43.30 archpodnet I yeah, oh interesting and indeed I think Belll Beker a lot of people Bell Beker is indeed that those objects themselves and those have now been used to define this whole cultural group because I guess they're just so popular, but amongst. This culture. They're they're so prevalent shall we say. 15:02.25 sarah Yeah I mean the interesting thing is that that you you sort of look at it and you go oh this is obviously a cultural thing but then you look at the distribution. Ah across Europe into North Africa ah it's it's sort of patchy. And it's it's fairly obvious that these people do not all share the same cultural values everywhere. Um and yet the beaker is a vital part of of their culture. and and I always ah I always say here in Britain what what you see is ah in areas of power like Stonehenge you get um burials with very refined grave goods including very finely made beakers. Um. But when you get sort of further out into the sticks as it were um what you start to see is people who are definitely being buried to sign on with beta beaker culture. But often with a very crudely made beaker that these know they've not got access perhaps to the finest makers they're making it themselves or somebody in the house is making it for them a robot. But obviously they're dead. So what's ah. 16:12.20 archpodnet Oh. 16:17.78 archpodnet Writer. 16:21.84 sarah Um, making it maybe but but certainly beakers are used as this marker within the grave of being part of ah as we said this culture and yet it doesn't seem to be homogeneous right across the whole area. 16:37.90 archpodnet Interesting. Which yeah, ah maybe we'll talk about this a little bit more later I don't want to take too much time off in this first section. But yeah, that's really fascinating because indeed it's such a all encompassing term you know? Oh yeah, they're the belbeca culture which yeah is it's like saying no, they're they're european. 16:41.37 sarah Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no. 16:49.56 sarah Yeah. 16:54.77 archpodnet I Guess which nowadays and you're like what does that mean Cliff her to ah well and actually that sort of does cover a little bit. The who were the bellbeakers. So indeed they they were you Europe and now I'm showing my ignorance of of that side of prehistory far. 16:56.10 sarah Um, yeah, ah. 17:12.78 sarah Um, yeah I mean I mean but it's it's mainly Europe but it's been it certainly spans western europe across into central europe um, even down to the coast North Coast of Africa. So. 17:14.38 archpodnet I can recall. It was mainly yeah. 17:25.97 archpodnet Last. 17:28.16 sarah Ah, you know there are there are connections right across and of course up into touching into Scandinavia. So yeah. 17:33.83 archpodnet Yeah, no interesting. Okay I'm going to stop it here.