00:00.00 archpodnet And go. So. 00:02.74 Alan Welcome back gang. This is your host Dr Ellen Garfinkel with segment 3 on the rock guard podcast episode Ninety Nine zero with our guest scholar Charles White charles um I didn't have a chance to close out the last segment. But I thought in this final segment. We'd do a bit of philosophy and reflection. What's it like to be at the helm of a small museum and what has been the what's been your favorite. You know accomplishments things that you think really hit your stride and. Made a difference in the community. How's that. 00:45.20 Charles Well I think um, as you know I had worked as a consultant to museums before I retired and ah in doing that I had a small little part of. Major exhibitions because I would work with like the la county museum or the Houston Museum of fine arts or the Boston Museum of fine arts mostly actual paintings but some of them were historical. And like the dead sea scrolls and things such as that so I had a small part of it. The thing about working for a small museum is that you can in my case it it was just. Waiting for someone to kind of come and take control and bring it into a new being because it was had had already been established for about 30 years but had you know. Not a lot of attention and nobody really who had any museum experience so I was able to to discern which of the artifacts that we had not necessarily the native american because we didn't have many at that point. 02:12.17 Charles But just other artifacts considering concerning agriculture and mining and whatever and I was able to decide well these are not really, ah, important or of the quality. You know to tell a story so I was able to when we were closed for that time. The Milano gallery was being built and we remodeelled the front I had a lot of time to go through the exhibits and winnow out things that. Really didn't belong there and after we reopened after the remodel a lot of people would come in and say oh you have so much more now when in actuality I had taken out about half of what was there because there would be redundancies and things that were not. Described just as I mentioned earlier in the milano gallery just objects there without some sort of explanation ah or interpretive panels. Ah don't really mean much. So we were able to put things together in a different way to tell a story. Ah, for instance, we have a section on the founding of the city which even though it was started in 76 when the railroad came through. 03:43.10 Charles It wasn't incorporated until 199 so I was able to tell ah bits and pieces of that history and also we have a recreation of of a blacksmith shop. 03:45.80 Alan Wow. 04:01.29 Charles Ah, and there were lots of artifacts that just naturally fit in there and we had someone about three years ago offer us a painting that had been in a meat market here back in the 1940 s and it's a picture of a huge cow. 04:16.11 Alan Ah. 04:19.63 Charles With a wide frame and all around are burned into the wood are brands from some of the local ranches so you know all of that So helps to tell a story and that's what we've what I've strived to do. 04:25.88 Alan Wow. 04:36.82 Charles Ah, with with our permanent exhibits is to give people a chance to decide decipher for themselves. You know the history of tatropy and we have so many photos and maps and things. Sure. 04:45.45 Alan Let let me let me let me let me let me let let me to let me take let me to let me take a break for a moment hold on. 04:56.14 archpodnet So everything? okay. 05:04.32 archpodnet Can you guys hear me charles. Yes. 05:08.91 Charles Yes, so do you want me to finish that or are you okay with it. 05:11.95 Alan Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I'll I'll just have 1 comment what I'm trying to say here is that are we recording now. Yeah that that what I'm hearing is that what you did was to take the museum. 05:21.50 archpodnet Yeah, you go ahead. 05:30.59 Alan And begin to ah focus in on the important objects that can be showcased and then transmit a story, a compelling story. Interesting Story. So that people will learn something. And be educated and also entertained. How's that. 05:54.84 Charles That's that's true. We're we're such a small museum that we can't devote a lot of space to to 1 topic. Um, and there are certain things that I would like to be able to. Showcase like we have nothing at all on the ah hispanics that have they were here from the beginning that helped to settle to hatchchepe and also the basque people. Ah, we do have across the street from the museum. 06:30.35 Charles An old house that was moved to the site about 1900 from a site where ah this man thought the railroad would be coming through and when it didn't come through everybody wanted to be here into hatropy. So some of the buildings were moved into town and one of the old houses. It's right across the street from the museum and we've restored it to 1900 to 1930. It's got a beautiful garden which we have just in the past three years been trying to. To renovate and replant and so there's lots of ongoing things that all fit together to to tell part of the story of Ta Attroy and most of our large railroad objects. Are now in a railroad museum which is about 3 blocks away and I actually ah designed that museum and also arranged it in in such a way that it it tells a comprehensive story. 07:27.39 Alan Running. 07:39.69 Charles And it's it's actually more popular than our museum partly because we have the historic to hatcheby loop here engineering Marvel that gets the trains over the hill it was too steep for this steam engines. So. There's a lot of railroad buffs that come here people that have moved here that live down near the loop. Just so they have a view of the trains at all times. So it's been gratifying to me to put this all together. 08:10.65 Alan So is this is it. 08:15.92 Charles And I've learned a lot about the history I I really knew very little of the railroad history and actually very little of the native american history but just from. Reading and studying and talking to Alan and the elders I've learned quite a bit. 08:40.71 Alan I think what's been interesting to me is is like I've said before when I spent the 4 years with Harold and Janice I learned more about native culture about native american culture indigenous culture. You know the? ah. Native people that lived in the tehachepes and in the western mojave desert for four I spent I had I had been studying them for 40 years and I learned more in 4 years than I did in forty years I learned stories I learned. Ah, language I learned the dictionary and ethnogeography. We wrote a whole section on ethnogeography. Oh my word we have we had probably over a hundred different locations that we had native names for the various places. That were known by the native people and and they had significance in their language and they had stories that were told in ah associationst, etc, etc. And um, I even spent time with a graphic designer and we put together. Ah an enormous map that sits on your wall to this day that. Had never existed before it tried to show the major villages and the areas that the native people had trafficked so it became a bit of a centerpiece for others to understand how widely. 10:13.53 Alan The Koaasu traversed that there was a desert group and a mountain group and in fact, they were heavily influenced by the desert culture and the great basin. They spoke a language that was kindred to the ah entire desert West so on and On. It's It's an interesting journey isn't it. 10:36.69 Charles Yeah I think you're right? Um, ah so much of my knowledge came from talking to people such as the elders and yourself and of course John Hammond our local historian who has made his life's work. 10:52.90 Charles Knowing everything there is about the hatchey including the Koasu and they they were really happy and proud and supportive of what we did when we had our Grand opening. Ah we had set up chairs for the tribal Members. Ah. And we were surprised that there were about sixty who came they're they're so assimilated and intermarried most of them are you know, not as interested in keeping up their. 11:15.18 Alan Wow. 11:30.92 Charles History as others are but they were really pleased that we did something like this for them and so it's been good for them and of course been good for us because that I would say um. Half the people who come into our museum are very interested in the guau and they spend a lot of time there in the Mamato gallery. 11:56.11 Alan Well, it's interesting. Um, when I worked with John Hammond and I worked with Harold Williams the 1 thing that really spurred me on for the four years we did our work together was it just seemed that anthropologists archaeologists the general public. Um and just the the people in general did not realize that the native you know that there there was a story here. Native people were here. They were here for hundreds and thousands of years and they continued to be here to this very day and there's there's a tremendous amount known about them and that that was ah something that that urged me because. When I yeah, read many of these reports compliance reports that had to do with cultural resources management and dealing with various discoveries of archeological materials or not they would put snapshots in and say there's nothing known about the koyu. And I would say well I I don't I don't think that's ah, an accurate appraisal and even their most prominent anthropologist who was associated with them said that their culture was dead and that they had become extinct and that's not true, either. Um. 13:32.11 Alan Just because native people don't live in connies or don't don't harvest or don't hunt as much or harvest native plants as much as they did in the past or even if they don't speak the language as they did in the past. They still know that they're indians they know their native americans they they know their heritage. They know their kinship they know who's related to whom and they have a tremendous pride and connection with the land and that's something that one never. Loses. 14:10.18 Charles Yes, and unfortunately they don't have tribal recognition. We've worked with some of the elders. They apparently it's very expensive to try to get your tribal recognition. Because the attorneys charge so much to to if you can get your foot in the door. So we've helped them on a very small basis when they've made trips to Washington we've helped them with travel expenses and that sort of thing. 14:39.15 Alan So. 14:44.76 Charles But they they don't have their tribal recognition yet. 14:49.18 Alan And most of the the ah tribes most of the tri blitz and and groups throughout California do not have federal recognition um very few contrary to popular opinion are are not casinoed. And not federally recognized and um, it's a political situation as much as a financial situation and the um the government in general does not want to see more tribes federally recognized because that opens up opens it up to morph. 15:19.18 Charles Yeah. 15:24.20 Alan More of the um you know the casinos and gambling and other things along those lines but um, but so it's It's an interesting time and I just mentioned this in passing but there is a group of the Koa siou that were on the tahone ranch that have been approved for a casino and it's going to go in here. 15:27.49 Charles Right. 15:43.92 Alan In the next six months to a year it'll be there on how we 5 and I bet it's going to be a tremendously successful one because that's one of the most busiest arteries in all of California so just ah, an interesting sidebar and with that I think we should. 15:56.49 Charles Yes. 16:02.64 Alan Um, you can sign off Charles and and and give us some ah you know reflections to think about vis-a-vis this dialogue. 16:13.84 Charles Well I ah I'm very proud of all of the projects that we've done including the raya house. We've just completed a Dvd on the. To hatche be earthquake of 1952 this is a Seventieth anniversary and we were able to produce a really wonderful 20 minute video um we have the original cemetery the old pioneer cemetery that's under our. Ah, care we try to keep it cleaned up. There are not a lot of headstones there but we do have some drawings of where people are buried. Ah, you know we we do scholarship every year to a high school student. Hopefully one that's going to go into the study of history. Ah, we we do various programs throughout the year in fact in October we're showing a silent film at 1 of the local theaters. It was the first silent film. Ah, filmed into hatchepe and I believe it was 1915 around that time period and we know we have a lot of the old photographs of tatbu from that time and the buildings are identifiable in the silent film. So we're looking forward to that. Ah. 17:45.80 Charles So we we do a lot of events when we can. 17:46.88 Alan And it and it and it continues it just continue it. It could it just continues. There's a lot of history. There's a lot of things to interpret. There's a a community that cares about its natural and cultural history and it's ah it's a fine sort of mix. Ah, Medley and a wondrous relationship that can be born. Ah from those people that live into attropy or that are interested in learning more about it. So ah, with that I think I think we should um, sign off and tell. 18:15.29 Charles Yes, it is. 18:22.62 Alan Tell tell ah all of our listeners if you if you ever get to to to hatchupy look up the museum and and go't go in and check it out I think you'll ah be pleased Charles Nick 18:34.48 Charles Well thank you Allan for this opportunity. 18:40.67 Alan It's a it's a blessing charles. It's It's been a long time in coming and I'm so happy to have been and out you know platform to share some of your insights see you see you later gang see in the flip flop God bless. 18:46.41 Charles So okay.