00:00.13 archpodnet Um, go ahead. Yeah. 00:00.99 Alan Welcome back gang. This is your host Dr Alan Garfinkel and we have with us today a guest scholar who is the director of the tachpee museum and a longtime friend. So Charles you're with us. 00:20.50 Charles Yes, I'm here. Thank you for having me. 00:25.77 Alan Well, let's let's go back. A bit. Let's jump back and talk a bit about the um conceptualization of how we had to sort of develop a theme and a character for that gallery. Think at one point we were trying to figure out well should we make it exclusively the kawaasu gallery or should it be a multiple you know themes I think we ended up talking about it being the exclusive kawahiu gallery. And it seems to have been ah paralleled or sort of you know, put together in a way to be a companion piece with the book now the book was an interdisciplinarian project where everybody got involved lots of native americans were involved. Both um the Kawaisu language and cultural center the ah ah really any native american that had an interest in our project. We had meetings regularly there into hatchchepe and the production took 4 years 4 years of research and writing to sort of get it together. The graphic designers were volunteers and and they did not charge us to produce the book which was amazing and Hammond certainly was was a big part of it. But. 01:56.83 Alan Ah, really Jenice Williams was was very critical as was harold in terms of being central and being at each and every meeting one of the highlights for me was when we were able to nominate the entire gang everybody for an award. In Sacramento the governor's award. It was in 2011 I believe and we won the governor's award for historic preservation and everybody attended and were there to receive that was plaques and that recognition award and I think that meant a lot to everybody. Any thoughts on that charles. 02:39.72 Charles I think you're right, of course. Um for to hatchey a project like this is a vast undertaking that normally would be a very expensive undertaking but we. As I said we had the milanos who kicked in a lot of the money to help with it. Ah, and we also had the expertise of Allen as well as janice and Harold Williams and we have a local historian John Hamman who is very ah interested and and very knowledgeable about the Kowaau and so all of their talents came to us at no cost. Ah. We. We were just very lucky to be able to do what we did and have such a first class gallery. We we have a murals program in town historical murals and one of those murals depicts. Ah. 03:47.39 Charles Kawayasu Village that was partly imaginary. It was based on historical fact, but in order to get the mountains and the the one lake and other elements. All in the same picture things had to be There was a little bit of artistic license. But the focus of it was not necessarily um, the the background it was showing the native americans going about their daily tasks. Ah. There's a small little scene of a man teaching his son. How to flintn nap to make an ah a projectile point. There are women teaching the the girls how to weave baskets. There's the actual houses that the native americans lived in were called connies in their language conhi means home or house and so there's a depiction of of those in the mural. And so what we were able to do the problem sometimes in designing an exhibit like this is that you've got some artifacts. You've got some baskets. You've got pictures of rock art. You've you've got projectile points and. 05:16.69 Charles They're rather static and they don't tell much of a story to the average person. So what we did we took sections. We had someone photograph this large mural and we took sections of it and use those in the background. Showing the various tasks that the native americans were doing the koaasu and we sort of created a story ah of how they processed the acorns for their food which was their main source of food. Ah. Ah, there, there's a section on basket weaving and and they're they're interesting things that people on their own can sort of infer the meaning of and ah. At times when we're going to have crowds there. We will actually have a doscent in that gallery to talk to people and and point out these things and explain to them the way of life of the koasu and we also nearby we have state park. is' called Tommo Kahi conhi of course means home as I mentioned and tomo means winter. So it was our winter home and it's probably about six miles maybe not even that far from downtown. 06:44.80 Charles And you can only view the park in the company of a ranger so on Saturday mornings in the fall and the spring when the weather's conducive. They're guided tours and they meet at the museum and either myself or 1 of our other dozians who. Have learned about the milano gallery will I actually give them a tour of the gallery and point out various things. For instance, we'll show them the picture of the conhi and tell them that when they get to the park. Rangers will show them a ring of rocks because they placed rocks around the bottom of this circular house to to keep the animals in vermin out and so when they are pointed out ah as a. 07:39.81 Charles What's left of where Connie would be in their mind. They can visualize the connie and there there are other examples of of things that we do like that to just educate them somewhat on the culture so that once they get into the state park. They they can visualize things. And those ah this year and and 2022 the first tour is September Twenty Fourth so that's a Saturday and so we they only can take. About 16 people on a tour because otherwise it can damage the environment there and almost all the tours are sold out. We always have people clamoring for those. 08:32.33 Alan What's remarkable about to hatchepe is there's is so much history. There's Prehistory. There's native ecology and it's such a um I don't know what you call it a living breathing natural area. That has a lot to offer in terms of just visually and experiencing a bit of a bit of nature I guess that's the best way to put it. Um, there's ah, a lot of people that. Appear to be attracted to to hatchepe because of its its beauty and the ah the changing seasons the natural environment and sort of the the culture of the people is this correct Charles. 09:25.43 Charles Yeah, it's ah it attracts a lot of taxrop be attracts a lot of people from more crowded suburban areas. They come to to hatchey and they're just amazed at the smalltown atmosphere. How friendly. Everyone is. And fortunately so many of those people come to the museum and it's odd because I have people that come in when I'm working there I always have people who come in and say well I've lived here 20 years and I've never been to the museum and. 09:59.14 Alan Um, and. 10:01.10 Charles That amazes me because I'm a museum person grew up loving museums and actually worked as a consultant to museums for a while. So for for people to not realize you know. What's here I Just find that amazing. 10:20.47 Alan Yeah, yeah, me too and and you know I've talked to people that that work and live in into hatchepee and and they're at surprising that they don't know that there's a ah state historic park that the that the that the Indians still live. Into hatchepee and are but are are rather prominent and recognized for a variety of reasons and there we are there we are but for whatever reason I think over the years We've been able to do some interesting things together to help promote and publicize and recognize native people and also to sometimes even repatriate if you would interesting Objects. You remember when we got that basket back from the family. 11:18.78 Charles Yes, ah, the area where the state park is is in sand canyon ah, which is kind of a lot of people who live out there off the grid although they they do have some electricity out in that area. But there was a family that lived into hatchby in the 40 s and fifty s the father was a geologist that worked with the at that time I think it was called monolith cement plant. Ah, which is adjacent to Sand Canyon but they lived in Sand Canyon and the 4 children spent their time out digging and looking and they they dug up a lot of arrowheads and. 11:56.17 Alan Are you still there. Ah. 12:13.54 Charles Scrapers and things like that. But they also acquired three native american baskets the ah the qsu baskets are somewhat rare because they there was no one in town that encouraged them to make them to sell. Ah, so most of the ones they made they made to use or to to give his gifts but there was 1 store in town and he would trade indian baskets to the individuals who needed groceries and supplies. But generally there. There was not a lot of baskets made for trade. So they're they're rather rare but this family had 3 and now it's been about twelve years ago ah they had contacted me about they wanted to return 2 of the baskets. Ah, to the museum so they were coming 1 son lives in Boston and the daughter lives in Anaheim and the 2 of them were coming with baskets and we arranged for a nice lunch with Harold and. 13:11.48 Alan Are you there. Hello, Nothing's going on what happened here. 13:26.11 Alan Hello Hello Can you hear me. 13:29.66 Charles His sister and Allen was there and they came to present the baskets and I thought they were presenting them to the museum but they presented them to harold they said Harold these are native american baskets that we're returning. We want to repatriate them. 13:32.40 Alan Chris Webster it looks like we're I don't know I think I lost Charles I can't tell. 13:48.22 Charles And so they gave them to harold and for you know for his family and ah they are among the baskets that we have on display now. So that happens periodically we have another basket that does belong to the museum. 13:48.85 Alan Can you hear me Charles can you hear me Chris hello. 14:07.63 Charles That someone ah repatriated and gave back to us so we own that one and actually we have a second one that we were able to buy a woman who lived in Mojave was moving to Arizona. And she was going to sell it once she got there and we heard about it and we were able to raise the money and buy it so we we do have a few of our own but the eise and ones as I said the the 4 children and unfortunately. 14:25.18 Alan Do we to he was here. Yeah, we got nothing okay hold on I'll let him fit. 14:39.22 Charles 1 or 2 of them have died now they've they've been kind to the museum and given us various things but they gave us a collection of eraheads that they had picked up as children and Alan went through and divided them up into different periods and. Ah, it's it's it's an important part of our exhibit on archeology. They go back to 6500 bc and out. Yes. 15:06.75 archpodnet Um. 15:09.33 archpodnet Charles Charles let's take a break right there because I think we've lost Allen's audio a little bit so but that is a really great point to take a break and come back and rejoin this discussion for segment 3 back in a minute. 15:20.30 Charles Okay, all right good.