00:00.00 Joe Williams Like well thank you for inviting me on. 00:04.20 Alan Pleasure. 00:10.10 Joe Williams And I would assume using this. 00:12.23 Alan Let me let let let me introduce. You let me let me introduce you first Joseph Williams thank you um yeah hi out there in archaeology podcast land this is your host Dr Alan Garfinkel with the California Rock Guard Foundation and we're honored and pleased to have Joseph Williams 00:17.11 archpodnet Yeah, go ahead. Ellen go ahead. 00:31.71 Alan Who is the one of the keyboard members if not the founder of the None fires corporation and None of the things that they do is to try to protect preserve educate inform and acknowledge. The ah native american places of cultural heritage and cultural values and so we're really honored to have Joseph Williams I don't think we've ever had anyone of his proclivity of his particular affiliation on any of the you know 80 plus episodes that we've had. Joseph can you hear me. 01:10.47 Joe Williams Yes, thank you, Thank you? Thank you very much for the invitation. Yes. 01:15.63 Alan What's a pleasure. So the the way we often get started Joseph well None of all, let's do a little bit of an introduction. How did you and I meet what. 01:26.90 Joe Williams Well, ah by happen chance I was supposed to have met up with Harold Williams and um outs. 01:32.14 Alan Okay, and and maybe tell people just a ah sound bite of who Harold Williams is 01:41.93 Joe Williams Harold Williams is regarded as he he would be I would say considered one of the elders to Thewau ah to the twice who tribe and tache be um now I I never really did get the chance to meet Harold Williams 01:49.33 Alan People Sure Absolutely thank you. 02:01.63 Joe Williams I'm not of course in any way related ah to any Williams or any of the quau and there happens to be quite a few williams in the quau even a Joe Williams and in the quietu and Annis Williams who are. I became well aware of ah by her basket weaving and understanding where basket weaving sits and on a cultural level with ah the natives or native americans living here in California. Ah, baskets are are a very important aspect of their culture. So I just felt in my heart and mind that it would be good to know to get to know at least his sister janice if I wasn't able to get that chance to meet Harold. So. 02:54.30 Alan And so I was I was a close I was a close friend with Jenice Williams and also of course Harold Williams was the co-author of the handbook of the Kowaayasu and the kowayu of course are a southern paute ah tribe native California indian tribe. 02:56.12 Joe Williams Through Janice Williams the basket weaver choir su. 03:08.71 Joe Williams Picks. 03:13.70 Joe Williams Exactly. 03:13.36 Alan That live in the tahachepes but also resided kind of in the edge of the western mojave desert or edge of the western great basin in the ah perhaps even into the far Southern Sierra um in any event. Ah. That's how we connected initially and how did you ever get involved with this particular idea of producing some sort of a nonprofit and what did that take to accomplish. 03:46.17 Joe Williams I I would have to say that it was a matter of of calculations I must profess that I I have a how should I say a geometric. Design on a of how should I say when it comes to for example, the moon and how it affects our tides I've learned that you know there's strong evidence that um. There may be more at play when it comes to plate tectonics and andography that kind of thing and so ah I kept connecting the dots. Ah how I set up the loan profit was I was simply. 04:27.95 Alan Sure got you but how did but how did you But how did you? How did you set up the nonprofit. Okay, what what did it? take what what were the steps that you gave. 04:44.62 Joe Williams Um, it the step side took in order to is to be close to a particular site that is that had raised my attention on an astrom on an astronomal level. 05:01.10 Alan Okay, right? That's what it that right? that that's what't That's what interested you? How did you learn of that God got got you going. 05:03.74 Joe Williams When it comes to astronomy so on a scientific level. Not a cultural level but on a scientific level. That's what got me to that now now I've learned that the the kawau they're they're actually like None of the oldest. Oldest known tribes in the nation and ah I stemming from cherokee myself having a little bit of native american quantum in my blood I have a little bit of an understanding especially haven't been raised as well. 05:29.20 Alan M. 05:40.71 Alan Um, yeah. 05:43.26 Joe Williams With that type of you know awareness of ah of the culture I learned that that some of these panels these panels that are painted. 05:46.74 Alan Yes, so you had a so so before you before you before you jump to that. How did you find out about this site and how did you gain access to it since I I understand it's privately owned or am I correct. 06:04.93 Joe Williams So yes, it's It's owned by ah by a corporation that's longstanding you know I don't see the sense of name and the name of the corporation but it's ah it's a century old. It's a century old corporation and. 06:06.46 Alan And what and okay. Okay, okay, no, no, no, That's that's unnecessary. Yeah,, but but so so you had your you. 06:24.15 Joe Williams I figured that because of how old this corporation is I needed I needed some form of of way to to balance the ah how should I say the political aspects of the site being owned. 06:28.30 Alan So you had your eye on that but go ahead. 06:43.20 Joe Williams Privately by such a large corporation and I felt that the only ammunition that I would have in order to try to find any kind of um of ground or at least a leg up on. 06:44.22 Alan Privately Yeah, right? And and. 06:59.92 Joe Williams Showing them that we have sincere interest in preserving this space would be from another court from another corporation. Ah, for 1 07:06.50 Alan Bright right? You had a you had to have an entity infrastructure a corporation itself to sort of go you know to interface. Yes, yes, exactly. So. 07:16.34 Joe Williams To working with another exactly so it was it was mainly a political move I ended up ah investing into none which is very very much near almost within eyesight. Of of this particular site. Um, that has for the most part probably is what brought brought me together with Janice and all of this together. Um, and you know on an archeological level. You know that would be cat. 07:42.64 Alan Yes. 07:53.38 Joe Williams Caccur 2003 I believe you've published and cacur 1193 just just with I don't know if you're allowed to use those because those aren't actual coordinates there. 07:59.52 Alan Okay, um. Oh yeah, yeah, the the ah you know the permanent trinomial archeological numbers. Of course we are um the so what was the intent or the function or the mission of. 08:11.28 Joe Williams Or. Okay, good. 08:24.31 Alan This new I understand it was new and how long has it been around this seven fires corporation. 08:31.99 Joe Williams Well, we've been around for about 12 years now ah and as far as where we sit. We have four directors. Um, ah we're actually even looking for even another director ah were represented legally. Um. 08:33.49 Alan Okay. 08:50.37 Alan Sure. 08:51.77 Joe Williams Our attorney who who who's invested in in this corporation as well as far as time is concerned the time that that we've spent at trying to find a medium whereby we can um. 08:57.72 Alan Sure. 09:10.10 Joe Williams Somehow publish how that the importance of these paintings on rocks and what and the meanings of what these paintings mean that maybe if we were to to educate. You know those who who wish to be educated about these places that that would be our form of being able to preserve this. 09:13.65 Alan Sure gotcha. 09:27.50 Alan Sure. 09:29.86 Joe Williams Space and it will probably be a ah good Mark as far as the the corporation that actually owns it and that's all I think that they're actually looking for is some form of stewardship for this place. 09:40.70 Alan So your nonprofit 7 fires corporation is really attempting to be a steward and an educator and one that respects and acknowledges and Reveres native american spiritual sacred. 09:49.66 Joe Williams Exactly. 09:59.10 Joe Williams Okay, thank you? Yes, thank. 09:59.49 Alan Cultural Heritage Heritage sites. Perfect Um, you're you you sure you're a native American or at least have some native American background do any of your other board members have. 10:06.98 Joe Williams Now I've gotten to know quite a few others as well. And. 10:17.95 Alan Native American ancestry. 10:19.87 Joe Williams Ah, our cfo Actually our chief financial officer I think he he he believes He has some chero Turkey Quantum but that that Quantum can't be proven. In other words, we with some of us. 10:31.20 Alan Okay. 10:36.64 Joe Williams We can claim to have that quantum but not be able to prove it so that would be the only difference. So I think yes one one of our directors are and now that actually you're one of our directors as well. Dr Allen and I appreciate you. But. 10:40.21 Alan Gotcha. 10:46.12 Alan Of ah of sorts of um, hopefully playing my a minor role as I'm stretched and stressed as you imagine but God God Bless you for the opportunity to ah jump in in something something as important as this mission. 10:55.40 Joe Williams Well done. Thank you. 11:05.27 Alan And this role and certainly also that you've taken the time to ah you know further magnify and broadcast What you're talking about here because I think it's extremely important. 11:18.11 Joe Williams As it's ah it's a It's a thank you. It's It's a little bit of a story for me to be able to tell because you know on my father's side of the family. It was more of the um. How should I say Gold digging prospecting so geography and science and trying to locate. Ah um, deposits gold deposits or deposits and and lay those Claims. So as I was. 11:36.86 Alan Okay. 11:46.77 Alan So was he was he was he ah was he a geologist Mineralogist Gold miner what what particular 11:52.91 Joe Williams So yeah, exactly and that's that's how I was able to actually come come up upon this canon that has our pet our pictographs in it. 12:01.29 Alan Okay, now. Yeah. 12:06.84 Joe Williams And so you know is on account of that now in that canon and is of course claims as Well. There are gold claims in their middle claims. Um, so on account of those claims I know that this corporation that we're speaking of that owns it. You know they they can't even Sell. Um. That property on account of the claims that are on the property already. So Our our idea. Yeah, exactly exactly quite a few of them and um so it it. 12:28.52 Alan Okay, so there are preexisting mineral claims, Interesting interesting and and and you and you and you and you took it upon yourself to actually purchase a small piece of ground so that you can. Steward or manage or protect somehow the resource to talk about that A little bit would you please? How did that come about. 12:50.68 Joe Williams Exactly. 12:56.60 Joe Williams Thank you I Guess it was a matter of of really trying to manage a strategic idea on. How do you talk to a corporation that is so large and old. 13:14.77 Alan K. 13:15.70 Joe Williams Over hundred years they just celebrated you know their hundred year anniversary and and and raising their attention to the importance of this cultural area of this canon they own. Cultural importance so important so that you know it would cause quite quite an upheaval on a cultural level especially and I've even been told you know by by both chiefs if you will. Of the wise who that you know that this would cause you know a definite problem and that corporation at the same time you know has put out whatever threats that they have even the threat of arrest should anybody trespass out back in there and so we feel like. 13:58.59 Alan Right. 14:02.87 Joe Williams We feel like that The Canyon already has the pop properties that's needed in order for it to be preserved. Unfortunately, there's there's a lot of ah um, outgo house shall see ah dirt bike go seekers. You know off-roders of. 14:20.45 Alan Okay. 14:20.87 Joe Williams And it's all illegal. There is no legal offroing allowed and all this offroing is causing a land erosion to the extent to where it's It's actually jeopardizing the site. 14:35.34 Alan Well let's let's leave it. Let's let's leave it at that sounds like we're getting into a lot of different elements and and characteristics and important themes in this discussion. Um I'll ah catch you? yeah. 14:37.45 Joe Williams As far as the Sand flows are concerned. 14:47.74 Joe Williams E exactly. 14:53.35 Alan Catch you on the Flip-flop gang. 14:54.78 Joe Williams Got it. Thank you.