00:00.00 archpodnet Hey everybody welcome to the rock art podcast and since you're hearing my voice that means I'm interviewing Alan again. So Alan welcome to your own show. 00:09.93 Alan Ah, ah Chris I love when we have the opportunity to get together and to to do this kind of thing. It's always a blast and I think we enjoy working together. So it's it's really just an honor and a blessing to sort of do this. 00:13.93 Alan Ah, ah Chris I love when we have the opportunity to get together and to to do this kind of thing. It's always a blast and I think we enjoy working together. So it's it's really just an honor and a blessing to sort of do this. 00:24.22 archpodnet Absolutely. 00:28.29 Alan Kind of riffing together and I think I think our listenership enjoys it too. 00:32.29 Alan Kind of riffing together and I think I think our listenership enjoys it too. 00:33.69 archpodnet Um, indeed indeed I think so so you know we've missed ah, an episode or 2 but that happens it's happening across the network actually because we are in the summertime for North America and many of our hosts are. Are based in in North america here the archeology podcast network and what do active archaeologists do in the summertime. Well they get outside and they do archaeology so sometimes podcasting has to has to wait. Yeah there's a lot of field work and and depending on where you are like some field work gets. 00:57.80 Alan Lot of lot of feel work. 01:01.80 Alan Lot of lot of feel work. 01:08.95 archpodnet You know, slammed out over a very short season because there's ah, there's a season coming up where you can't do any field work so you know bear with us as we we still try to create content and and get some get some good good episodes out there. But occasionally we will run. Ah, ah you know, ah, an older episode into the feed but to be honest. With podcasting. We don't do that all the time because you can always go back and listen to whatever you want? Um, so so if we need to skip an episode sometimes we'll just skip an episode and that's that's how it is. It's you know we're all working archeologists here at the apn so we take that as it is and speaking of working. Dr. Garfingal you have been doing a lot of work lately and None of the things that you've got coming out is a new book based on an article you wrote a long time ago. Let's talk about the how you first got interested in. Well let's talk about what it is and then how you first got interested in that. 02:00.41 Alan Well I think I've talked about this briefly but and in in point of fact, just to turn a phrase. Um, one of the things that's interesting about my research area in Eastern California a place called the koso range. 02:04.41 Alan Well I think I've talked about this briefly but and in in point of fact, just to turn a phrase. Um, one of the things that's interesting about my research area in Eastern California a place called the koso range. 02:19.50 Alan Is that there's a um assemblage of depictions of what might best be called projectile points. They're ah obviously dart points and they're shown either alone. 02:23.50 Alan Is that there's a um assemblage of depictions of what might best be called projectile points. They're ah obviously dart points and they're shown either alone. 02:35.47 Alan Or attached to or in association with some solid-bodied or decorated animal-human figures and this has held my interest for what nhlon 50 years when I None saw the book of um. 02:39.47 Alan Or attached to or in association with some solid-bodied or decorated animal-human figures and this has held my interest for what nhlon 50 years when I None saw the book of um. 02:47.60 archpodnet Um, yeah. 02:54.99 Alan Campbell Grant from 1968 there's a page in there of these figures and he talks only for about a paragraph a few sentences about them and I said you know those are rather interesting and. 02:58.99 Alan Campbell Grant from 1968 there's a page in there of these figures and he talks only for about a paragraph a few sentences about them and I said you know those are rather interesting and. 03:11.99 Alan I bet if we put some energy and savvy some scholarship into it. We might be able to date those depictions. They are ah realistic representations in some cases you can tell the style and the form and. 03:15.99 Alan I bet if we put some energy and savvy some scholarship into it. We might be able to date those depictions. They are ah realistic representations in some cases you can tell the style and the form and. 03:31.47 archpodnet Um, okay, and and what was the I mean how long ago was this paper that you wrote when you None when you first start started talking about this if you could remember back that far. 03:31.55 Alan That's why it intrigued me so much please. 03:35.55 Alan That's why it intrigued me so much please. 03:43.51 Alan It was decades ago many many decades. It was one of my early papers I worked with one of the authors of the original a rock art of the coso range that was done by Campbell Grant back in 1 68 03:47.51 Alan It was decades ago many many decades. It was one of my early papers I worked with one of the authors of the original a rock art of the coso range that was done by Campbell Grant back in 1 68 04:02.36 Alan 1 of his co-authors Ken Pringle was with us and when I came back into the profession after a 20 year hiatus I looked Ken up and I said Ken I'm really interested in these depictions of. 04:06.36 Alan 1 of his co-authors Ken Pringle was with us and when I came back into the profession after a 20 year hiatus I looked Ken up and I said Ken I'm really interested in these depictions of. 04:21.32 Alan These projectile points especially in association with these animal-human figures Could you take me around and show me I want to photograph and examine all of these that we're aware of and he said sure I can take care of that. 04:25.32 Alan These projectile points especially in association with these animal-human figures Could you take me around and show me I want to photograph and examine all of these that we're aware of and he said sure I can take care of that. 04:38.40 Alan That was many years ago and I was extremely fortunate because at that time I was able to move about the the range the China Lake Naval Weapons Center range 04:38.87 archpodnet Yeah. 04:42.40 Alan That was many years ago and I was extremely fortunate because at that time I was able to move about the the range the China Lake Naval Weapons Center range 04:56.14 Alan Rather freely that's changed dramatically and as the years went on the um layering of security upped and the difficulty. 04:57.91 archpodnet Ah. 05:00.14 Alan Rather freely that's changed dramatically and as the years went on the um layering of security upped and the difficulty. 05:03.18 archpodnet Sure. 05:13.60 Alan In conducting any field work or even research has become exceptionally challenging for those who have an interest in doing work in the coso range. So you know fast forward to my continuing research. 05:17.60 Alan In conducting any field work or even research has become exceptionally challenging for those who have an interest in doing work in the coso range. So you know fast forward to my continuing research. 05:20.93 archpodnet Ah. 05:32.83 Alan I I didn't give up on the program I wanted to identify all of those panels All of those images that could be found throughout the base the north base mainly but also at little Lake which is just off the edge of the base. 05:36.83 Alan I I didn't give up on the program I wanted to identify all of those panels All of those images that could be found throughout the base the north base mainly but also at little Lake which is just off the edge of the base. 05:47.60 archpodnet Ah. 05:52.49 Alan And Lo and behold from just a handful of images literally maybe 6 to 10 We ended up with over a None depictions of projectile points that exist in the coso range. 05:52.74 archpodnet Yeah. 05:56.49 Alan And Lo and behold from just a handful of images literally maybe 6 to 10 We ended up with over a None depictions of projectile points that exist in the coso range. 06:07.37 archpodnet Wow. Nice That's really cool and I think you know our longtime listeners to this podcast know exactly what we're talking about here but for potentially new listeners and it's just a reminder can you tell us a little bit about the coso. People You know how you know the timeframes that we're talking about when they lived in the Kosa range you know, Obviously we'll talk about dating a little bit later not rock art is notoriously hard to date. But you guys have had some success in that area. But maybe some of the the just ah, an overview of who we're talking about in what time period we're talking about. 06:40.15 Alan Sure ah be honored to do then? Um, the kosal range is in Eastern California it's in the innomono region. It's ah right there not far away from the town of ridge crest and it's a million acres in size. 06:44.15 Alan Sure ah be honored to do then? Um, the kosal range is in Eastern California it's in the innomono region. It's ah right there not far away from the town of ridge crest and it's a million acres in size. 06:45.23 archpodnet Periods. 06:56.51 archpodnet Um. 06:59.49 Alan The rock art itself is mostly in the north base and conservative estimates hold that there's probably a minimum of 100000 images individual elements that are on the rock art some indicates more like 200000 07:03.49 Alan The rock art itself is mostly in the north base and conservative estimates hold that there's probably a minimum of 100000 images individual elements that are on the rock art some indicates more like 200000 07:19.33 Alan The images are mainly on basalt and what's unusual about coso all this rock art is concentrated in an area. No larger than 10 miles by 10 miles but a hundred square miles it it dates from about let's say. 07:23.33 Alan The images are mainly on basalt and what's unusual about coso all this rock art is concentrated in an area. No larger than 10 miles by 10 miles but a hundred square miles it it dates from about let's say. 07:34.40 archpodnet E. 07:39.30 Alan Ah, late pleistocene. Let's say None all the way through historic times most of the rock art was produced during what we call the middle archaic of the newberry period from about 2000 bc to about a d one and it appears that the rock art peaked. 07:43.30 Alan Ah, late pleistocene. Let's say None all the way through historic times most of the rock art was produced during what we call the middle archaic of the newberry period from about 2000 bc to about a d one and it appears that the rock art peaked. 07:58.60 Alan Peaked in production during a period that was in the Newberry and then went through ah a massive decline to about let's say a d 1000 where some of us believe that the um area was abandoned now. 08:02.60 Alan Peaked in production during a period that was in the Newberry and then went through ah a massive decline to about let's say a d 1000 where some of us believe that the um area was abandoned now. 08:17.34 Alan Why was it abandoned a lot of different reasons. Perhaps but there seems to be a a sea change or a series of coincidences that may have all interacted together. It appears some people believe that the Koso people actually hunted out or diminished the bighorn sheep. 08:21.34 Alan Why was it abandoned a lot of different reasons. Perhaps but there seems to be a a sea change or a series of coincidences that may have all interacted together. It appears some people believe that the Koso people actually hunted out or diminished the bighorn sheep. 08:36.84 Alan To such a great extent that it would They were no longer candidates for hunting Also ah that time was the introduction to bow and arrow and the bow and arrow changed the economics of using Volcanic glass. 08:40.84 Alan To such a great extent that it would They were no longer candidates for hunting Also ah that time was the introduction to bow and arrow and the bow and arrow changed the economics of using Volcanic glass. 08:44.54 archpodnet Ah. 08:56.62 Alan Now in the Kosos it has some of the largest expressions of volcanic glass anywhere in California so we have an ah obsidian exchange system that exported that volcanic glass that obsidian from the desert. The western mojave desert. 09:00.62 Alan Now in the Kosos it has some of the largest expressions of volcanic glass anywhere in California so we have an ah obsidian exchange system that exported that volcanic glass that obsidian from the desert. The western mojave desert. 09:15.41 Alan All the way to the channel islands and we found ah bits of coso glass out in the channel islands ten thousand years ago or even earlier. 09:19.41 Alan All the way to the channel islands and we found ah bits of coso glass out in the channel islands ten thousand years ago or even earlier. 09:25.86 archpodnet Wow Wow! That's really cool. So. 09:30.34 Alan There's a lot more to say but that's little some some of those sound bites keep keep going. Please. 09:34.34 Alan There's a lot more to say but that's little some some of those sound bites keep keep going. Please. 09:35.62 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, No absolutely. Um I'm just wondering too. You know you mentioned the the area where the the coastal rock art is that we're focusing on for this podcast and and quite a few others actually because there's so much to talk about.. The area is relatively small in context of the Eastern Mojave right? But the Koso people themselves. Yeah, it's tiny, right? right? But the Koso people themselves did they did they did they range all over the place or did they tend to stay in this. 09:55.41 Alan Um, it's It's tiny now very tiny. 09:59.41 Alan Um, it's It's tiny now very tiny. 10:09.36 archpodnet This area that actually provided them with a lot of resources. 10:09.55 Alan Well believe it or not the coso range itself is rather resource deficient. There ain't much to eat there. It's not much water there and the only thing they had that was perhaps a a significant resource was the volcanic glass. 10:13.55 Alan Well believe it or not the coso range itself is rather resource deficient. There ain't much to eat there. It's not much water there and the only thing they had that was perhaps a a significant resource was the volcanic glass. 10:21.25 archpodnet Okay. 10:28.72 Alan Um, if there is a signature or ethnic identification to the koso people based on their rock art. They were a fairly insular group as ah Julian Stewart said in the introduction or preface to. 10:32.72 Alan Um, if there is a signature or ethnic identification to the koso people based on their rock art. They were a fairly insular group as ah Julian Stewart said in the introduction or preface to. 10:45.98 Alan Coso range volume back in 1968 it was kind of an island of rock art there. There's ah you know it just sort of expresses itself there. What's unusual about coso rock art is it depicts bighorn sheep predominantly. 10:49.98 Alan Coso range volume back in 1968 it was kind of an island of rock art there. There's ah you know it just sort of expresses itself there. What's unusual about coso rock art is it depicts bighorn sheep predominantly. 11:04.25 Alan But also it's very naturalistic or representational I would say None of the images you can tell what they are, you can sort of deconstruct and say well. There's a person and there's ah, a person chasing a sheep or they have um. 11:08.25 Alan But also it's very naturalistic or representational I would say None of the images you can tell what they are, you can sort of deconstruct and say well. There's a person and there's ah, a person chasing a sheep or they have um. 11:14.66 archpodnet Um, yeah. 11:23.79 Alan Ah, spear in their hand or a bow and arrow here's some quao here's some dogs, etc, etc. Yeah. 11:27.79 Alan Ah, spear in their hand or a bow and arrow here's some quao here's some dogs, etc, etc. Yeah. 11:30.77 archpodnet Um, yeah, okay, all right? Well I think we're going to take that opportunity to take a short break and then we'll come back on the other side and get a little more into this book. That we mentioned at the beginning of the segment. So Let's do that and talk about that book on the other side of the break. 11:46.24 Alan Thank you. 11:50.24 Alan Thank you.