00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome to the show. Everyone joining me today is Andrew in California and Heather also in California and I am currently in forest grove organ which is I guess. 00:04.37 Andrew Kinkella Hello everybody. 00:08.77 Heather Hi everyone. 00:16.85 archpodnet Just a not too far outside of Portland Oregon to the southwest actually at a sackade distillery which is ah ah one of the the first type of thing we've stayed at in this harvest host membership if as Aer archeologist you don't know what harvest host is I seriously suggest checking it out, especially if you've got like a. Like a van or a camper on your truck. You can't stay there in tens but it's it's generally free overnighting as long as you patronize the host and if you're traveling across the country for work. It might be a good place to overnight grab a glass of wine. You know, chill and then move on. But again you can't tent camp but you can car camp or or camper camp. So. Check it out. We're not an affiliate. This is just a really awesome service that we use. Okay, so all right? So today as you guys know we've been alternating who who picks the topics for the shows and this week it's Heather so I'll let heather introduce our guest and topic today. Go ahead. Heather. 01:07.51 Heather Oh. Thanks Chris. Okay, will we have a esteemed guest Bill Burns he and I are colleagues we work together at the same company and he is not only he's he's just a man of many trades he is an archeologist. Um. Terrestrial archaeologists but he's also an underwater archaeologist. Um, not to mention a super guy. So um, and um, the impetus behind this podcast is the March fifth of this year discovery of the endurance which was sir. 01:34.24 archpodnet That's. 01:46.46 Heather Ernest Shackleton's um, expedition ship and it's been I think since 1915 it has it it I think it is like in October it got crushed by ice and it slowly sank over a couple months or a month and it's been lost to I don't it has just been lost to the sea for a while until just a little over a month ago and so I just I thought it was super exciting and I reached out to bill and said hey what do you think about talking about this on our podcast. So. First I just want to introduce you to Bill Bill I tell oh you're welcome. Um, you tell us just a little bit about yourself and maybe how you got into automarter underwater archeology and then we'll we'll talk about the endurance. 02:23.22 Bill Burns Hi. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah. 02:33.97 Bill Burns Sure so I'm an archaeologist I also in California actually but I grew up in Rhode Island both my parents are marine biologists. So I was kind of always surrounded by. Boats and the sea and ocean stuff that are always taking me out so I've always been kind of surrounded by and fascinated by the sea and then in ah in college you know I got into archaeology like many of us do um and. Field school and I always had kind of a slight interest in you know wreckx shipwrecks and whatnot. But I I didn't you know I was just a student so I didn't know if ah if that was a thing in archaeology but I lucked out that one of my tas in my field school who's actually a colleague of. Ah, and I right now Kerry Lynch actually did underwater archaeology then and and she got me into it and introduced me to some ah ah, local group in Rhode Island or the Rhode Island marine archaeology project to do great work with volunteers. And they kept me involved and just kind of took it from there. 03:48.24 Heather Great. Um, So if you don't mind giving us a background. Um, there may be some people that are not all that familiar with the endurance. Um and the maybe first the history of the endurance and then the efforts. Um, that have been undertaken to try to find it. 04:07.78 Bill Burns Sure it's pretty incredible story. Both the shackleton story and also finding in the wreck it just when I think about the the things to line up for it all happen. It just poles my mind really so so for shackouttain I believe this was his third gonna be his third expedition. 04:19.95 Heather Yeah. 04:27.13 Bill Burns Into Antarctica and the purpose of this this was kind of the end of the you know golden age of exploration as it's called. You know it's right when ward war I was starting which is also kind of an incredible part of this story. Um, so the the idea between behind this expedition. Was Shaleton was going to do overland March across Antarctica so the endurance was going to take them to the shoreline of Antarctica at the wattle sea and from there theyre supposed to March across all of Antarctica. To the other side where another ship I believe it was called the ah aurora would be waiting for them to take them home and they didn't get too far. They got to the wattle sea and immediately get stuck in ice and just stayed there for the whole time. 05:08.53 Heather Ah. 05:24.70 Bill Burns All through the summer and then by I think October the the ice end up crushing the endurance. But luckily all of the crew get off offshore off the boat I mean and with they they had their rowboats. 05:30.26 archpodnet Choose. 05:42.99 Bill Burns So I believe in a series of either camping there just on the ice until enough of the ice broke up that they could get the boats in the water or they might have actually dragged some of the boats ah a bit of a distance to to get the open water where they could get the boats in and from there they ah um. The the lifeboats to an island off antarctica elephant island I believe it's called and get rescued from there and not a single person of ah of that expedition actually died I'm sorry let me correct that not a single person of the endurance. 06:15.18 archpodnet Wow. 06:19.40 Heather Right. 06:21.31 Bill Burns Expedition died but actually the boat on the other side. The Aurora that was supposed to be their sport boat. Um, three of those men actually died trying to set up base camps for Shackleton's expedition coming through which never actually came through so few of them actually passed away. 06:21.35 archpodnet C. 06:38.54 Heather Yeah, it's it is yeah it's pretty amazing story of endurance I Guess what little did they know little did they know how? um that ship's name would foretell. Um, their experience right? so. 06:38.76 archpodnet Wow. 06:44.36 Bill Burns Yeah, yeah. 06:44.96 Andrew Kinkella Third. 06:51.54 Bill Burns Um, I know so aptly named. 06:53.41 Andrew Kinkella Yeah. 06:58.25 Heather Yeah, and it took a while. There's some amazing pictures. Anybody that's listening wants to just do a little you know search online. There's some pretty cool pictures. They did take pictures while they were stuck and they took pictures of the ship in various states of ah destruction. 06:59.75 Bill Burns Um, the north. 07:13.52 Bill Burns Um, and. 07:15.37 Heather Ah, before it actually succumbed to the sea totally and it's it's fascinating. So now um I don't I don't know when did they start when did people start deciding they wanted to find the ship. 07:29.30 Bill Burns Well, it's always been a ah bit of an interest problem is the it's an Antarctica which one the the sea levels there are in the wall to see are very very deep I think the the endurance itself was found about ten Thousand feet deep 07:36.65 Heather Right? what. 07:47.92 Heather Yeah, but Nine Thousand Nine Thousand Eight hundred and sixty nine feet there you go yeah 07:48.90 Bill Burns Which is actually mind boggling. Yeah, absolutely incredible. Yeah um, and of course the other trick is that being in an Antarctica the ice is you know present pretty much year-round. So. 08:03.56 Heather Right? right. 08:08.59 Bill Burns It's always been an interest for people to find it but always kind of an impossibility up until very recently when and we can talk about this later but technology for Underwater archaeology has advanced by absolute leaps and bounds in the past few decades and on top of that. 08:09.96 Heather Um, and right. 08:28.27 Bill Burns Not the greatest thing but global warming has diminished the ice in the water sea quite a bit making it a lot easier for icebreakers to get through to where the reported location was. 08:36.10 Heather Right? great. But why don't we go into? Um, what led to maybe maybe if you can kind of take us through what were some. Other efforts that maybe weren't successful may have led to the discovery. Um I don't know a whole lot I mean I read I read about it. But it's all kind of way over my head is because I don't not an underwater archaeologist. So um, and don't understand all the you know I understand some of it. Um, as. You know, as far as the satellite. Um the roles of satellite markers and everything that led to it but I'm really curious. What were the other efforts towards trying to find the endurance and then how did that lead to the discovery in March of this year 09:25.99 Bill Burns Yes, to piance I'm actually not aware of any previous, really wholehearted expeditions to find the the endurance before and I believe the the group that found it this time they're called endurance 22 and they were put together by the. 09:32.40 Heather Right? yeah. 09:44.46 Bill Burns Falkland maritime heritage committee group I believe so and I believe they actually did try a expedition a year or two before this current one and for whatever reason they want. 09:48.75 Heather And yep heritage. Trust. 09:59.66 Heather Yeah I think ah yeah, go ahead I. 10:02.56 Andrew Kinkella Right? Yeah, you know Heather I think um I think just based on like Bill is saying based on the technology I don't think you really have um huge or super serious efforts to find the endurance until you know, relatively recently I mean i. 10:02.89 Bill Burns Weren't successful with that. Oh. 10:21.30 Andrew Kinkella You know, Love this story and I never thought never thought they'd find the endurance I was like no no way you know because it's It's so extreme and diving in conditions like that are just so hazardous and cold and you need all this you need extra diving equipment to deal with. 10:23.56 Heather Ah, but. 10:39.80 Andrew Kinkella Cold weather like dry suits and this kind of stuff. So I I never thought they would find it so I think like Bill is saying yeah, it's it's sort of ah it's a gift of the most modern of technology and. 10:49.38 Bill Burns Nowhere. 10:49.44 Heather Yeah I think so some of it I Guess maybe I'm I'm referring more to um what I had read about the Archival you know, reading the diaries trying to figure out exactly where it was because that had gotten gotten lost to time. Um and trying to figure out the exactly I think they had the. 11:00.15 Bill Burns Sure. 11:07.36 Andrew Kinkella Who. 11:07.76 Heather That long or they had They had some information but it was still you know in the sea you could you know you can have a let long or you know it doesn't mean necessarily going. You're going to find the um, the ship itself because who knows what the currents have moved or when it went into the sea. How it's. 11:21.30 Andrew Kinkella Right? right? Or yep did the ice like completely crush it you know. 11:25.42 Bill Burns Sure. 11:27.29 Heather You know, moved and and drifted so right right? Oh amazing. 11:30.82 Bill Burns Right? right? And that's another incredible thing about ah the stories just the the skill of the the crew members because ah the reported location of the endurance was recorded by the captain of the endurance a man named um osley I believe. woorsley woorsley correct yeah um and they found in there only four miles from his reported location with just with ice floes and currents which the wa I'll see is known for some of the craziest just most dangerous currents in the in the oceans. It's it's really remarkable. 11:50.75 Heather Worsley Frank Worsley yep 11:56.25 Heather Ah ha. 12:08.94 Bill Burns So the the endurance 22 really lucked out with ah that bit of information and just having the the ship only four miles from from where they thought it could be. 12:18.27 Heather Yeah I think it it goes to show that and I think as archeologists it's important for us to remember we can have all the technology in the world. But the people that have mastered navigation. They mastered you know to a small degree that you know are. A lesser degree that the use of a compass or really understanding geography and and knowing how to navigate. It's really important just having a technology having a tremble or a Gps in your hand and letting that do all the work without understanding. Um everything that goes behind. Um. 12:36.47 Bill Burns And. 12:54.46 Heather Land navigation. You know it's it's um I think it's something that an art that can be lost. Um and is very very important and this right here just shows you I mean you have somebody back in the early nineteen hundreds more than one hundred years ago who was able to you know record the location of where they were. 12:58.69 Bill Burns Yeah I could agree more. 12:59.31 Andrew Kinkella Yeah. 13:13.86 Heather And that we were able to find it. It just shows you how important having a ah master navigator. Um and being able to do that as Archaeologists um, is really important how many site records. Do we try to relocate sites and find them. 13:22.85 Bill Burns Absolutely. 13:23.87 Andrew Kinkella And ah yeah, get get. 13:27.95 Bill Burns Ah, right. 13:30.30 Heather Because people are lousy at recording locations. 13:32.72 Bill Burns Ah, yeah, yeah, it really gives you a deeper understanding of just navigation and cartography. 13:38.70 Andrew Kinkella It it totally does and and actually the navigation they did in the little boat from Antarctica to Elephantine Island as bill told the story ah Elephantine Island I think is it sixteen hundred miles away or something it's literally you know it's a massive. Yeah. 13:38.30 Heather Right? hopefully. 13:51.46 Bill Burns Yes, it is a voyage. 13:57.91 Andrew Kinkella And to to find that with like a sextant you know it. It's the whole story is basically an ode to fantastic navigation. 14:04.14 Heather To and that. 14:04.19 Bill Burns It really is it's It's mind bobbing. 14:08.97 Heather So do you mind you know what? I think um, hold on Chris I'm gonna I'm trying to figure out because we are at 13 minutes why don't how about we stop here early and then we can because I don't want to get him on. 14:16.42 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 14:24.90 Heather Um, get bill on the track of what they actually did to find this this time. Yeah is that how's that because I Okay well did. 14:28.50 archpodnet Okay, you want to you want to reset and call a break officially okay, go ahead. Well just since since we won't We won't use this as our cut point just say just start up again and say why don't we take it. Why don't we stop right here and take a break and come back on the other side Blah Blah blah. 14:44.99 Heather Okay, all right? Why don't we stop right here and take a break and come out on the other side and talk a little bit about um the current or or the successful um discovery effort by endurance 22 14:46.35 archpodnet Ah, whole thing.