00:00.52 archpodnet Welcome back to the serm archeology podcast episode 2 38 and we're talking about disaster preparedness and when you're in the field and disaster strikes. What do you do or better yet. What do you do to prevent being in the field when disaster strikes something you guys were just talking about the end of the last segment about. Making that call while you're in the field. It really made me think about scenarios that happen in Nevada a lot especially in the wintertime when or wintertime or maybe even springtime when it could be rainy and stuff because you know you don't go outside when it's raining partly because ah just the ground is too. Um. Too disgusting and you'll just get stuck in the truck I mean you just I mean you can walk in it for sure. But you'll just the truck will get stuck because we're always off the road on some you know? Blm um road and not only that but we're not allowed to like gouge up the roads either. Um, you know civilians do but people who are working out there on Blm and forest service property. They actually look um, they. Frown pretty heavily upon that. So not only that, but it's not safe that being said in Nevada there are more what they say is there are more unnamed mountain ranges in Nevada than anywhere else in the country and if you look at the state. It is just. Vertical like north southh trending mountain range after mountain range after mountain range after mountain range and we're not talking hills here. We're talking mountain ranges and there could be you. You could be sitting in a hotel in winhamucka Nevada and. It could be raining and mixed rain and snow right there at your hotel when you wake up in the morning and just coming down in buckets you look at the radar and it looks like it could be all over the place but your worksite is an hour away and you have to make that call is it raining at the worksite because it might not be There's different ecosystems little little things that are happening from range to range to range and it could be blocked in one area you could have a a nice dry sunny day out in your project area. But then and I've seen so many people make this call because of that logic not thinking about the hazards is getting there. And and getting back after you get all the way out there and realize yeah it is actually disgusting out here. Let's turn around and go home it sometimes people feel like they have to go out in the field they have to go out and check that site before they come back. Otherwise they're going to like Bill said get in trouble lose their jobs. You know for not going out so I just made me think about that. 02:16.58 succinctbill Yeah, and I I totally hear you because Arizona's a lot of the time. It's the same way. You know each place it has their own hazards right? like working on the coast in Washington state the tide you can't dig whole probes if the tide's coming in so you got to pay attention to that and sometimes you look at your day. 02:16.97 archpodnet Bill looks like you got to comment on that. 02:21.68 archpodnet Yeah. Oh yeah. 02:34.88 succinctbill And you're shaking your head like this is senseless. We're not going to be able to dig a shovel probe down because the tide's going to come in and it's all just going to be muck and slime anyway and I won't be able to actually see any dirt. So I guess you know 8 hours of our day is just going to be like waterlogged or every probe is only like thirty centimeters deep where they need to be like two meters 02:38.97 archpodnet Oh. 02:52.27 archpodnet Yeah. 02:54.29 succinctbill So you know that's always the thing and that in Arizona just like you you know I was mentioning. It could be raining on one side and you look over there and see a mountain and you need to be paying attention to like where are those clouds at then are there washes that are aiming towards you because you could turn around and try to drive back on a road and the next thing you know it's like a small river. 03:11.22 archpodnet Her or. 03:12.94 succinctbill And there's all this water there and so then you got to try to figure out. You know what are you going to do and sometimes it's just you know you're going to hurry up and take some Gps points so you can come back to that location cross that wash go to another part of the project area and then maybe we have to backtrack the next day and go there and finish what we were doing because. It was too dangerous to stay out there and so you know that's that's always a thing but ah the the weather. Ah um, things that we can face out there now I feel like they seem like they're you know more extreme and so you know. 03:31.89 archpodnet Yeah. 03:48.30 archpodnet It's getting worse. Yeah. 03:49.67 succinctbill Yeah, the the climate's getting worse like fifteen years ago when we were leading crews out there. Yeah, you know we could pay attention to the clouds and watch the weather and you know make these attempts and stuff like that. But now it just seems like it's like kind of out of control. So um, what young folks are doing now. 04:00.38 archpodnet Ah. 04:05.19 succinctbill Ah, that are just starting out here with these even more unpredictable weather conditions. You know how are they making it through because the the playbook that we used that it might not actually be a thing anymore and. 04:15.75 Andrew Kinkella Yeah I would say ah sorry Heather you got something. Okay I um I would just ah, really agree with bill and I am curious about sort of the younger generation stuff in terms of the roads leading in and out. It's like this isn't time just to watch your Gps guys. You know like. 04:18.39 Heather No, you go no you go first 04:35.30 Andrew Kinkella Especially why I'm thinking in Southern California like and of fires we were very very conscious the last couple times around out at the site here about fires during the semester there was a big fire that came through so we had to think of all this like alternate ways of getting out of the site if 1 1 way was blocked. We actually did get blocked 1 time not by a fire but by something else but having you know how many roads out how many dirt roads out how many paved roads out how many choices do you have to get out of there. How much time is it going to take you know all those kind of things and I do worry sometimes about kind of. 05:01.84 Heather Okay. 05:14.14 Andrew Kinkella People of my students' age not thinking like that just thinking like oh I'll just watch my Gps and it'll reroute. It's like no no, no, no, no, you know, um, are those roads washed out in in the in the other examples you know I think this stuff is is really really important. 05:15.16 archpodnet Ah. 05:16.29 Heather Right. 05:27.13 Heather You know? Ah so I'm you know sound like a record record I really think that a lot of onus responsibility needs to lie in the manager and on the company to make sure that the people in the field had the technology that they need number 1 05:36.54 Andrew Kinkella Ah. 05:42.79 Heather You should have whatever your navigation system should be based on satellites. It shouldn't be shouldn't be using whatever Google earth or you know or I mean have collector aveza those those that technology that you have that doesn't require the internet but. 05:59.44 archpodnet Um, you mean ways doesn't work in the mojave come on. 06:01.89 Heather Care right? I will say um you know I think I told this story a long time ago I'm not going to go into the story but we we were working out. Um ah crew and I were working out in the back country of Santa Barbara in the Santa Barbara County 06:04.50 succinctbill Ah, ah. 06:20.60 Heather And it was an area that had been ravaged with the mudslide a few months earlier and we got stuck in a ridge line. They had to take a road and that road was an ah old se or Southern California edison road that road had not been maintained because the road relied on a. Ah, like a small ah being able to go over creek that had been washed out by the mudside. So se wasn't using the road. We didn't know even though we had pretty up-to-date aerials. That's 1 thing is being able to know the area and know of any major disasters that would change the terrain. 06:43.47 archpodnet Ah, gift. 06:59.52 Heather Have gone through that area like the mudslide so we didn't know that that that then and the aerial didn't show that that road was washed out and because of that se had not maintained the road and because of that now we had all this talus or all this rock that was on this very small narrow road and in the end we ended up. Thank god we so you know it wasn't any worse but we flipped the truck um and came very seriously dangerously close to going over a three hundred foot ravine and we were right on the side of a mountain with a very narrow maybe fifteen foot ah road. 07:24.17 archpodnet Ah. 07:35.32 archpodnet Yeah, we need to we need to link to you telling this story because we have this on this on another episode we were talking about dangers in the field or something and man that is one hell of a story. 07:36.99 Heather Access Road and we flipped the truck at yeah, yeah, so that was that's a good example of. 07:45.13 succinctbill I Ah a joke. 07:52.97 Heather Even you think you have all the tools at your disposal and something can happen and I don't really think there's anything we could have done to avoid except I was used to driving in weird situations if we the person that was with me said if I had been driving I don't know if I would have been able to react and get us. 07:55.98 archpodnet Yeah. 08:11.17 Heather To a point where we flip the truck rather than went over the ravine and so you know having people that are properly trained in driving off road people can't you can't just throw people in a truck and expect them to drive off roadad I mean you really have to have ah a knowledge of how to do that and the other thing that I would like to say is first. 08:12.66 archpodnet Yeah. 08:28.66 Heather The onus or responsibilities on the manager one 1 aspect of you know, taking that pressure off of people thinking I'm not going to make money today if we have to go back to the hotel or or whatnot is the manager always having alternative work. 08:45.16 archpodnet Or. 08:46.79 Heather You should always have work that can be done in the rooms and have that ready to go. There's plenty, especially now there's plenty of work now that takes some preparedness but you should always have work that you can keep people busy. So They know that they're not going to be losing out on money because then that when you have desperation. That's when you make silly silly decisions. Yeah. 09:07.47 Andrew Kinkella Totally ah I would I always think of it as the b site. It's like okay the a site like Bill's point earlier about dude, it's all waterlogged. We've all been in situations similar you know it's like but is there a b site. 09:07.79 archpodnet Yeah, indeed. 09:22.86 Heather Right? right. 09:22.89 Andrew Kinkella You know, farther up the Hill or whatever that oh you were going to get to at some point like just go there. You know? yeah. 09:26.50 succinctbill Yeah, yeah, and also you know the whole roads thing right? like everybody's saying here just because they exist on the map doesn't mean they're actually on the planet Earth and shown to Aalis Slope or a wash out or something like that like you know and. 09:31.19 Andrew Kinkella I yeah. 09:36.91 Heather Yeah, yeah, yep. 09:39.31 Andrew Kinkella Ah. 09:43.91 succinctbill You know, ah that's always going to happen when you have 0 cell coverage and you're 90 minutes away from the nearest freeway right? So what are we going to do are we going to calculate. You know how long will it take for us to walk to this ape if that's actually feasible. How long will it take for us to run to this apa. Oh well I guess that's not really feasible. 09:47.38 Andrew Kinkella Totally. 09:53.70 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, and. 10:01.53 succinctbill Okay, well perhaps we have to just go to another place or try to find some other kind of way to get in there. You know is there another road that's close so we can hump it up. You know a quarter of a mile rather than having to walk four miles I mean that that also is where ah paying attention to your maps and looking at you know topography that stuff all comes in really huge. So. 10:10.58 Andrew Kinkella Um. 10:17.65 Heather But that takes the responsibility of the manager or the crew supervisor they're the ones that should be setting this thing this up all ahead of time you should be looking at plan a plan B Plan Z Plan T so that if something does happen. You're giving you know the crew in the field. 10:18.11 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 10:36.98 Heather Every option. 10:37.12 archpodnet You know one project I was on in one of the last companies I ever worked for before I started my own company I was given this relatively good sized project. It was ah I don't know 2 or three thousand acres out in central nevada in an area I had never been before none of the people had ever really worked in this area before there was. Lots of old mining activity just looking at the aerials and the and the topo maps there were roads all over the place and in order to do a more efficient, survey and figure out access I made the call to go out with another one of my colleagues and we spent a week before the project. And I was actually kind of taken a task with this saying why aren't you just surveying at the same time and and you know you're out there. You should have field crews out there I was like because I think this is going to ultimately save us time on this like three month survey project and we just drove every single road and got them on the trembles and then we had symbology for the quality of road that it was and. 11:22.37 Heather Yep yep, yep right. 11:30.88 archpodnet You know how drable it was and I'll tell you what it was a huge timeaver to have that because we had a good solid working knowledge me and the other crew chief of what the roads look like in this massive crazy networked area that was just insane and and everybody had those layers on their gpss as well on their trembles. 11:49.44 Heather Bright We I just grip. 11:50.34 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, that's awesome. We did. We did the exact same thing in Belize we did the exact we we drove the roads we mapped them in first. It saved so much time. There's actually um, a term for that. It's a haphazard survey which is a real thing. You know. 11:50.84 archpodnet So It was ah it was valuable to have that. Um, yeah, yeah. 12:05.15 Heather Yeah, and you know the other I'll add one layer. We just I just did one on Thursday actually we're working with the fire department out here doing vegetation vegetation management program and we went with them because when you're going in especially in a mountainous area actually anywhere really. 12:05.66 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, yeah. 12:25.10 Heather Unless you're on like clear. Blm um land you're going to be crossing private land all the time access roads go into private land in order to get to where where you're trying to go and so going out with the client right? off the bat. Um, if you can and if they have an understanding and understanding all the access points. 12:40.52 archpodnet With. 12:44.52 Heather Um, because you know what slows you down is when you come across, you know a gate that's locked that you didn't know about and and the client didn't know about and so you know, um, we're lucky you know, working with the fire department. Obviously they know because they have to have that access all the time but we do other projects and. 12:54.33 archpodnet Brett. 13:03.18 Heather Driving with the client it built it into the budget. It's app. It's so valuable to to do that because the last thing you'll the the 1 thing and always checking every gate because ranchers especially out here. They tend to change their locks a lot or. 13:08.80 archpodnet First. 13:17.92 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 13:20.16 Heather They change somebody cuts the lock and then they have to replace it and so you know right? Yes I mean there's so many and you know I think it Also you know, let's say a manner. Ah I don't have time for that or that I don't have budget for that. 13:22.86 archpodnet Or somebody somebody puts one of the 9 locks on their wrong and nobody can get the lock off. 13:30.62 Andrew Kinkella Yup, yeah. 13:38.62 Heather It's a really good marketing. Um a marketing opportunity because when you're sitting in a truck and you spend half a day with the client I mean that's like when do you get a chance to spend half a day with a client in a truck where you're driving around I mean it's it's invaluable for marketing. Um, ah unless you're. 13:50.42 archpodnet Yeah, usually only at gunpoint. 13:57.80 succinctbill Yeah. 13:57.32 Heather Yeah, unless you're kind of a jerk then you kick you're not able to relate to the client. But if you're you know, an amiable person. It's It's like a perfect opportunity to be able to get to know them on a personal level. So I think like people are shortsighted when they don't do that kind of thing. 14:12.53 succinctbill That's what I was going to mention the gunpoint thing right? because that's also the reality of trespassing and being out on private property right? So we we've mentioned this a couple of times and this is definitely could be probably the biggest disaster ever is what you get. 14:17.27 Heather New him right. 14:18.27 archpodnet Yeah, alright. 14:27.90 succinctbill You know, held up at gunpoint or when people are out there just shooting willy-nilllly and you're on the other side of a hill and they're just like blazing away and you're surveying within you know, firing range basically of a ricochet I mean I don't ah that the whole like you know, being stuck up. 14:32.65 archpodnet The. 14:47.86 succinctbill Being you know held at gunpoint is not a thing that I've ever seen any kind of health and safety anything. Ah but but having guns brandished and and aimed at you out there in the field is a thing I've experienced more than one time. So I don't know what other folks want to say about that as a. 15:02.60 Heather Yeah, yeah. 15:05.41 succinctbill You know what are the protocols for that of getting stuck up out there in the field because you're you know, supposedly trespassing and. 15:10.72 Andrew Kinkella It happened to me twice? yeah. 15:14.40 archpodnet Yeah. 15:14.54 Heather Yeah I would say that the more official I hate wearing the high visibility stuff but the more official you look the better always carry cards with you and have a 1 point person that when you're there. First of all, nobody should be going out alone. I still see it unfortunately but nobody should be going out alone but have 1 person ahead of time that has been determined that they feel comfortable that they're the ones who are going to be the point person to talk to the person who has the gun on them. So um I haven't I've I have had. 15:42.26 archpodnet Yeah. 15:51.53 Heather Once I've had a shot but it was a gun range and people didn't realize we were there and and and the pm for that project specifically who who just sits at the desk. It doesn't go out in the field had not even thought about the fact there was a gun range there and and hadn't told anyone so. 16:03.40 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 16:10.70 Heather I Think you know thankfully I haven't been in that position but I would say those things making sure that you look as official as possible and that you have somebody who is going to have the wherewithal to talk fast and explain why you're there? yeah. 16:21.51 archpodnet Yeah, and. 16:23.18 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, and I would just say and I'm not joking. It's like move slow. You know, talk Calm Hey we're just the archeology crew. Oh I guess I made a wrong turn you know like and it usually works but and archeology not worth dying for again. 16:27.25 Heather Yeah, yeah, yeah. 16:30.43 archpodnet Um, yeah, yeah, well and here's. 16:38.93 succinctbill Yeah, and also I think the high viz vest a lot of times and you wear in a you know local utilities Jacket is like the reason why they're pulling their gun out. 16:46.86 archpodnet Um, yeah, yeah, and. 16:48.12 Heather Sometimes yeah, true. But I think more often than not not not having like we have a survey that is going to be a montecito and you have paparazzi there all the time right? So we wear it and then if they see the high visibility there. They're more apt to think that you're not paparazzi but um so those that are listening that are not from this area montecito is where a lot of you know celebrities live and and so Oprah Ellen to I mean I can list them all off the prince prince Harry um, and so just making sure that you know your area. 17:14.63 Andrew Kinkella And Oprah. 17:15.31 archpodnet Ah. 17:27.43 Heather You know a high fesibility in some areas is going to be a good thing and in other areas like Bill said, maybe not so much. 17:32.23 archpodnet Yeah, all right? Well just to take this out I want to make 1 more comment on meeting people in the field whether on purpose or accidentally at gunpoint make sure you're field cruise if you're not like 1 small crew and and you're the field director or you're the project manager out there but you've got multiple crews out there. Make sure they all have a business card from the company a stack of them that they can hand over because I don't know how many times I've been a crew chief with with crew or I've just been on a crew and none of us work full time for the company. We're just out there as temporary hires and we have zero credentials at all. We're just like. 17:52.64 Heather Yes. 18:01.99 Heather Um, right right. 18:07.96 archpodnet Yeah I don't know the guys over there I can call him and have him come over here but just have have the paperwork have the have the fieldwork authorization have whatever you need in every single crew's hands so you can hand this to the person because these people out in these rural areas and I'm more speaking of like Nevada and Rural California and stuff like that they are very. Legal conscious my land my rights this is all my stuff and you get off and if you can show them government documents that say you're allowed to be there official documents from your company that say you're allowed to be there. They're they're more likely to you know, unruffle their feathers just a little bit so all right. 18:27.26 Heather Yes. 18:34.33 Heather Yes. 18:40.44 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, you know I I just want to go ah add quickly on on top of that that I think the business card thing is so important and I've experienced several crm um firms that were super reticent to give us business cards and I really pushed for the exact safety reason I'm like no no, no, this is a. 18:40.68 Heather Right. 18:44.92 archpodnet Yeah, oh. 18:53.13 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 18:55.83 Heather All all you have to do it just it. We create we have business cards doesn't have to be for that 1 specific person you just have a business card that is just a general business card without that person's name on it I mean that. 18:59.39 Andrew Kinkella Safety thing. It made me really mad. 19:10.00 archpodnet Sure everybody can have them. Yes, yeah, it's It's a business card for the company. Yeah, they're not that expensive. Yeah, all right with that. 19:13.10 Heather That's enough right? Then when you don't have to worry about having a thousand business cards for 1 person who's as needed. You know. 19:17.36 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, but still, why not go crazy and make some business cards for every person you know what? I mean like it's worth it. Yeah, it's nothing. Yeah. 19:22.15 Heather Um, yeah I mean you? yeah true. 19:29.80 archpodnet Let's take 1 more break listen to these words from our sponsors and affiliates please try to click on them. They're doing great things for us and could for you as well back in a minute.