00:00.00 David Howe So Like Nature Valley bars kind of like what I was saying like has anyone ever opened a nature value. Nature Valley bar and not gotten crumbs on the floor If So please let me know and also like when you take a bite out of it. How do you not get crumbs on your shirt or on the floor like if that. How why would they make the packaging like that. It's It's an atrocity. 00:25.59 alifeinruins It's it. It's it is a war crime that they can't like get it to to get like hold together. They like get some honey or something do something. It's ridiculous. 00:35.20 David Howe Yeah, it's just peanut butter flavored madness. Um, but anyway how you done. 00:41.23 alifeinruins Doing good I should should mention this is 1 episode 1 65 a life and ruins podcast where we investigate the careers and research of those living a life in ruins. Um, it's me David Carlton is ah currently. You know I don't not sure. Yeah, currently indisposed. So it's just me and David talking today and I am doing well in this lovely scorching heat and layer me how are you doing. 01:02.90 David Howe Carlton's indisposed 01:15.60 David Howe Ah I'm good I moved to Wyoming for the summer because I wanted to avoid the scorching humidity of Tennessee and I am loving it getting the vitamin d um I can like I wake up kind of cold and shivering which is my favorite feeling. Um, well and my favorite feeling. But yeah, it's nice. 01:33.30 alifeinruins It's like it's like a beautiful thing. It's beautiful thing. Yeah, it's nice to have you out front. Um, it's been great. Obviously you guys have heard about us some archeology stuff. We've done in the summer there's some more on the docket that we'll talk about later. Ah, you know it's not too bad, not too bad, um, not not too bad. Ah, you do have something big going on tomorrow though which is kind of or seven thirteen which is important and anthropological and and and very cool. Do you mind. 01:52.44 David Howe Not not too bad. 02:10.75 alifeinruins Um, kind of briefness on what's Ah, what's going to happen. 02:15.11 David Howe Yeah, sure. Also by the way we're about to talk about a heavy topic after this. So we're kind of just trying to trying to ease into that before we just start off right off the bat with it. Um, but yeah tomorrow I I don't know why it's like this is like a. I Don't know tattoos are just like ah spiritual is the word I would use but they're like important to me would be like the simplest term and like the process of getting a tattoo and the forethought of what one do I want and like I get tattoos and Periods I'm getting a tattoo tomorrow by the way. 02:37.97 alifeinruins Yeah. 02:49.45 David Howe Get tatttoos in periods of my life where like I want to remember it like when I I got my first one when I was in grad school and I was like fuck it I'm gonna go get a tattoo in fort collins the other one I got reminds me of Wyoming that one reminds me of being born in New York another one is that growing up in Nashville as well. Ah, the mammoth tattoo because I love paleo paleo stuff? Um, but yeah, the hands I got after a significant life event um the other ones as well. But my point of this is like it is like the pain of a tattoo and you've you've had some like it. 03:22.90 alifeinruins Yeah. 03:25.93 David Howe It feels like a constant sunburn would that was that describe it. 03:29.54 alifeinruins Yeah I would say that um and it puts your body kind of into this weird weird State I don't know how to describe it. But it's like it feels like primal or something like that because you're just like suffering. 03:37.55 David Howe Yeah. 03:45.18 alifeinruins But there's like adrenaline kind of coming through it at the same point. 03:49.24 David Howe Yeah, and kind of like I wrote in that that post it's like it's almost like not that it forces me to dissociate when it's painful but like the pain of it gives me like the opportunity to just like be out like ah. Like I can I can be grounded and feel all the pain or I can dissociate and think about something else while the tattoos going on and usually I'm ruminating on something that like the reason why I'm getting the tattoo or not. But yeah, it's like you can actively choose to dissociate or you can actively stay in that primal state of like. Ow. 04:26.50 alifeinruins Yeah, and I think my my general what happens to me is I stay like present I'm like forced to be there like that just the pain is just forcing you to be present in that moment feel your skin fill your muscles etc. Have maybe slightly awkward conversations with your tattoo artist. Yeah, just it's just I I always feel like it's slightly awkward Sometimes you can get into like a good groove with them. Not that like tattoo artists are weird or anything like that. But they're just like. 04:49.85 David Howe Yeah, that's important. Ah. 04:57.12 David Howe Yeah. 05:03.27 alifeinruins Permanently marking your body and you're paying them a lot of money to do it. So it's kind of like this really really strange relationship that you guys have. 05:10.80 David Howe Yeah, no, you're right and like it helps when you get a rapport with the same artist but I move around so much I've only had the same artist for three tattoos. So um, yeah. 05:20.50 alifeinruins Same you have 1 artist is only done I've had 3 3 artists. Yeah, oh 2 note 3 3 artists? Yeah, but it's like but. 05:29.11 David Howe Yeah I didn't know that. But yeah, um, gotcha. 05:38.28 alifeinruins I'm hoping like in the future if I stay in a place to to but to build that rapport because it is important and you can you can really work on your dialogue and communication with people and really get what you want out of a tattoo I think when you when you establish that rapport. 05:52.78 David Howe Yeah, my last guy in Augusta him and I connected on like he had just adopted a dog and then the conversation went until like how he tried to commit suicide at one point and like we talked about depression well because he asked why I was in my head of what was going on and then we started to talk about anxiety and depression. And I remember like the girl that was next to us like kind of looked over and he was like just wait till you do it like the the way is that it. But yeah, it's just catharsis is the word like it's just the pain of the tattoo hurts. But when you're done. You're like okay I have to accept this permanent decision I made. Endorphins hit you and you're like I've now changed my body because you're not born with it and like you can't grow new things except like a beard or you know longer hair and you can get an accident and your nose could get cut off in like a medieval battle. But like you consciously add a tattoo to your body which is I mean to get you this plastic surgery too. But. 06:50.88 alifeinruins Yeah, it's like force. It's like chosen mutilation I wouldn't cut Maybe mutilation is that like too strong of a word but it's yeah modification of that. But I do I think that part is fun I think the after care like that couple weeks after is. 06:58.62 David Howe Modification. Yeah. 07:08.14 alifeinruins Some of the worst and most uncomfortable time. Yeah, especially if you have it in like a ah place that is like visible so you can't You're not supposed to get it sunburn. Um, you're not supposed to cover it with anything at the same point. Um your your body. 07:11.40 David Howe It's itchy. Yeah. 07:19.74 David Howe Ah. 07:25.30 alifeinruins Doesn't it release like um like some sort of like oozes for a while. It's basically trying to repair the damage that has been done. 07:31.97 David Howe Yeah, it literally punctures your epidermis down into your dermis where it fills the ink. So your body is like it's not Pus I don't know what it is but yeah, like it sweats out. It's the material that like eventually forms a scar or a scab. 07:43.56 alifeinruins Fuck What is it. It's. 07:50.80 David Howe Um, and the material the fluid. Ah maybe I don't know the word I Just know it like it's kind of gross and when I had it on my forearm like it would end up on the table at work and I was like ah leave like a snail trail. Um. 07:52.92 alifeinruins It's it's plasma right. 08:08.25 David Howe O'connor's looking that up. Yeah, so the tattoos um anthropologically like they've been around forever I think the oldest one that I can remember is Tennessee three thousand years ago deiderwol found ah some ink on the bottom of some deer bones that were like made into needles. Um. And like that's just the one that we know of how many things in the past have we not just microscopically looked for ink on the tips of them. Um for body modification. 08:35.57 alifeinruins Wasn't there one in like wasn't there 1 in like Utah or something that's pushing it back a little bit but they're like it's not not confirmed. Yeah, yeah, um, there is plasma that it eat that is caught that is oozing out of your body and that's what creates the scab. 08:43.68 David Howe Possibly I just haven't kept up with it. Um, but. 08:53.60 alifeinruins So it's like this clear liquid and you'll also lose like ink too I was sleeping in like white sheets afterwards and I just absolutely destroyed them. It was like there was divorce decision ever. 08:57.84 David Howe A. 09:04.27 David Howe Yeah I didn't think about that it just gets on the table when I was working. But yeah, this one's gonna be on my upper upper Forearm. So I don't think I have to worry about it. Um, yeah, it's just like it's therapy for me would be the word like I get it to like Release. Ah. In the same sense that I guess people cut themselves to like feel something or like release like pain or feel pain I don't know exactly why people cut themselves I just know like it's different for everybody. Yeah and a tattoo mimics that also flint napping for me too like I constantly cut myself So I'm I'm present. 09:31.79 alifeinruins There's something that that it does. 09:41.12 David Howe And grounded in my body because it hurts. Um it. 09:43.50 alifeinruins Or think like really long hikes do that for me too when you're like forced to like be with your own thoughts for long periods of time while working or are causing pain to your legs like that that feels like primal to me I mean which is. Obviously because we move. We've been moving around for all millions of years we've been humans and pre-humans. 10:06.20 David Howe Yeah, no, that's a good point. Um, yeah, get like we just hiked the other day and it if it pushes your body So you're kind of like you have to push through the pain. Um, yeah, what is that it is especially after you've had gaam bere. 10:19.40 alifeinruins It's also real pain in the asset like ten thousand feet so yeah yeah so well 10:25.49 David Howe Um, but I I did we mentioned I mean i't want to talk about myself but we we were gonna talk about what it is um, all have've made a post about this by the time this episode comes out but ah yeah, I'm gonna get borair. Ah, like the death of borreir put it on my arm from the lord of the rings like he's got. He's kneeling and he's got the 3 arrows in his chest. Um and like I think boreir what like the 3 words I think of as like brave flawed and human is borrairre and like we're all human so we're all flawed. And like as brave as we want to be or like you know good at what we do or whatever you want to say like we all have our flaws. So um, a borair is like the one there are other human characters in the fellowship of the ring like in Bri and at the prancing pony and stuff but he's the only main human character. 11:08.73 alifeinruins Um. 11:22.21 David Howe In the story because Agorn technically is like above human with his ancestry and and all that. But yeah, borreir's like mortal and he gets misunderstood because in the movie. He's kind of made to look like a dick but ah. They the way I describe it is Tolkien writes an expanded amount about borrair in the books for sure because it's just you know it's a book you can expand but you kind of have to read between the lines to understand the point of his character whereas in the fellowship of the ring movie. 11:43.76 alifeinruins Absolutely. 11:57.80 David Howe Peter Jackson just like to the point shows you that borrair is flawed who's tempted by the ring and that's why araorn is reluctant to be King because he sees himself in borrair but at the same time borrair wants to use the ring for good purposes to defend gondor against mordor. Um. And that selflessness turns into selfishness as he's tempted by the ring. So yeah. 12:20.46 alifeinruins Yeah, and he's a he's such a He's very complex and like you said you get like 1 little glimpse into the complexity that is borreir. You really get the the you you think of him as just wanting the ring being selfish but when you really. Contextualize it into the larger thing and like the pressure he's under from his from his father and like that the pressure of the stewards and that kind of yeah yeah, and and and that the stewards are not real kings. They are like just kind of caretakers of gondor because they don't really. 12:45.97 David Howe And defending the free world. Yeah. 12:57.68 David Howe Yeah. 12:58.37 alifeinruins They're not Kings so there's like all these really complex things that he's that it's like being forced upon him and kind of good. Yeah dennitors crazy. 13:04.74 David Howe Right? Yeah cause he's like ah like he's a prince like all but in name essentially yeah and he has like yeah. 13:17.20 David Howe Yeah, um, so there's the other bit too where it's like he and we'll get to the point of this episode here soon. But um, the like Bora here. Is like yeah, he's he's a prince all but in name like he's his father's like technically like the the interim king of gondor the steward and Boramir will ascend to that throne when the father passes it to him. Um, so when he finds out that strider is egorn. 13:40.28 alifeinruins M. 13:46.87 David Howe He like not only at the council of Aon gets shut down to like use the ring to you know for good purposes to fight more door but he also like has to now soak in in the same like 5 minutes of that meeting be like oh my legitimacy is like ruling gondor is. Over to this like ragged guy from the north. Yeah um. 14:10.10 alifeinruins Yeah, what would have happened I mean this is kind of a sidebar like what would have happened if they had both well I guess fairmeer does survive like what what is their standing in Gondor following that because they are they just like ah like a ruling class below. Say eog ergorn and his progeny are. 14:31.92 David Howe That's a good question I guess they would still just be like Nobleman like a upper class like administrative people I don't know. Um. 14:37.48 alifeinruins But that's a big downgrade from like what he potentially would have been which is like the the Steward of Gong gondor. 14:46.78 David Howe Yeah, um, so with that like abdication. Essentially what that was what that would be if you give it to aorn in the book. It's like competing forms of masculinity like borrair is the strong. And like courageous warrior ah and like what we just say like perfect son whereas aorn is like complex and he's involved in like a love story and um is reluctant to use power herrlicch wid power. So it's that but at the end. Where Frodo like you know is ah scared of borreir because he well I think borrair threw throughout the story like he was he was like attentive to Marianne Pippin teaching them how to fight like in the movie at least. 15:33.83 alifeinruins Oh. 15:36.80 David Howe And then like after Gandallf dies. He's like give them a moment for pity's sake like after they just went through morea and Eric everyone's like no, we got to press on so like he's caring and like he's so caring that the ring consumes him in that sense and that gets lost in the movie I think but. 15:52.50 alifeinruins Definitely. 15:53.63 David Howe At at the end when Frodo gets scared that he's trying to take the ring. He immediately feels bad and then he like sacrifices himself to save marion pippin and Frodo at least the ones he knew were around him um and like ah in his death. He like repents for his sins if that makes sense and aorn then is like okay men aren't like so flawed that I can't be their king like he and he's less scared of his temptations than to would you agree with that. 16:13.89 alifeinruins Yeah. 16:24.70 alifeinruins Yeah, absolutely absolutely and I think that's that's beautifully put and I really like the design that you have It's kind of I don't know how to describe it in art terms because we're minimalist. Yeah, but it's like it's like it's not abstract, but it's like. 16:37.46 David Howe Minimalist I guess. 16:43.86 alifeinruins Yeah, it's been I Guess minimalist is right that you're just you're capturing bits and pieces of it with like no really intense detail to it but you understand what it is when you see it. 16:54.94 David Howe Yeah, exactly and we had totemic tattoo. Danny here is last name Carlton interviewed him on the podcast a couple couple months ago um anyway yeah it's just the tattoo to me symbolizes like we all have flaws. But like we're all human and like all of my tattoos have to do with anthropology and being human so it just adds to the theme and I love lord of the rings means a lot to me so that's just why I got it? Um, yeah. 17:24.68 alifeinruins Well, that's really cool man. Thanks for thanks for sharing with me. Mine are only band tattoos and that's just who I am as a person so on that note, yeah on that note ah well, we're gonna end this segment. Um, but David do you want to give us a little teaser for the next. 17:28.36 David Howe And says a lot about you too. 17:36.62 David Howe Yeah, we were trying to decide if it would be better to soften the blow of this topic by talking about the tattoo first or lighting the load afterwards. Oh we decided to do it first. So if that is like kind of jarring to you either way like we we at least thought about it. Um, yeah, so we're going to talk about I am working for or how would I say this? Ah I'm freelance writing for a company and the topic is about the african diaspora and specifically rice cultivation in the Southern Coast ah the Southeastern Coast like South Carolina and Georgia um, and the topic like largely revolves around the african diaspora and the slave trade. So um, yeah. 18:25.27 alifeinruins So just yet just a warning for people in the next segment it. Ah there it will be heavy. Um, there's there's stuff that might be triggering just as a warning. So with that warning we will be right back.