00:00.00 David Howe Welcome back to episode ah 1 64 Nintendo 64 our live insurancens podcast I'm your host davidve howe join my co-hosts Conor John and Carlton Gover ah carton that Carton Carlton that was a fascinating talk I appreciate it. 00:16.61 Captain Sad Car The Carton of milk. Thank you for? Thank you for that. 00:18.66 David Howe Um, yeah, missing missing child. Ah, but yeah, Connor and I wanted to talk about um Warren a mammoth site in Wyoming um and the goal of this site was to find out if it was killed by humans or not. And that is very likely a no but it is 100 years it died 100 years before clovis arrives in Wyoming so it was like a pretty like interesting like possible but it just was an elephant that died I don't know how do you want to go about this Paleont logical. 00:47.57 Captain Sad I was just yeah, so so and and the story of this comes from the the landowner at the time was digging I think he's digging a well or a water line or something. 00:50.63 alifeinruins It. So it's palian. It's paleontological about archaeological. 00:56.61 David Howe Yeah. 01:03.20 David Howe Yeah. 01:07.31 Captain Sad Ah, ends up popping through something I think he sees the tusks or he sees some part of the mint. 01:12.49 David Howe It was um, the guy doing the excavator her herardo he found like the femeral head and he was like oh shit a dinosaur bone. Yeah. 01:19.63 Captain Sad Yeah, and then they proceeded to contact the University Of Wyoming and bring us out there because we are interested in mammos or or the people in and our department are very interested in mammos and all that kind of stuff so that kind of set off ah a series of events that. Ah, brought us to there. 01:39.83 David Howe Yeah, and the reason Spencer got called the state archeologist and Todd was because the guy originally called the paleontology department and because it was a mammoth found like at that level in Wyoming pretty close to like other mammoth sites they were like um. I don't know if they carbon dateated at first they're not with the paleontology. Regardless they were like you need to contact the shippo or like the state aa opposite of the wymoster archeology this because it's probably archeological if it's that young which is why it was excavated archaeologically because paleontologists just kind of dig around the bone. Not looking for a tiny micro debotage of stone tools around it. So yeah. 02:19.66 Captain Sad Yeah, and I think that that their preservation is the same so like ultimately we get they find almost all the elements of it. They've got they're missing a tusk. Um, they've got missing a mandible the lower Mandible is that. 02:32.79 David Howe Yeah, from what I saw. 02:36.52 Captain Sad Yeah, the jaw um but they they have lots of elements and I think paleontologists would do the same thing we do which is we cast it save it and go deal with it in the future. But but the surrounding methods is are significantly different like you wouldn't dig 1 by one meter units 02:44.92 David Howe Yeah. 02:55.61 Captain Sad But the shovel or anything if you were doing it padling to logically to just blow through it. 03:00.10 David Howe Yeah, they would just carve right in kind of um, but digging there last year for the whole time. It was like they knew where ephemeral head was so we started blocks that way hang on one second. 03:16.59 David Howe Perfectly loud. They found the femeral head. So the the trench that was opened went past that to see where like the direction in which the bone should go and as those units kept opening up. It was just like more and more long bones more and more verts more and more just like. 03:17.55 Captain Sad I could hear it. 03:34.28 David Howe Everything and it was so cool to just I time lapsed all of it so like just seeing a mammoth just slowly come out of the ground was really cool and it was a female Ah I think full-g grown elephant um, and I remember standing there looking at the. The femur and then the tibi are the fibula. We couldn't tell which one it was at the time but measured that and then measured the femur and that was already taller than me so like like just put the tape measure next to me so I wasn't even up to this thing fucking shoulder Colombian Mammoths are huge. 04:10.10 Captain Sad Yeah, and it's in it the the way it landed or the way it kind of stopped and was preserved is face down which is not how mammoths fall you know, not generally unless they're tripping like I probably. 04:22.63 David Howe Yeah. 04:28.17 Captain Sad Like unless you trip on a rock real bad and go face First you generally just fall in place and or while you're running or whatnot. 04:36.37 David Howe I Thought it was ass up the way it fell I can't remember because we were looking at because yeah, we were looking at the bottom of the mandibleistic the bottom of the max low is sticking out of the ground. Um, but. 04:40.90 Captain Sad Let's face down ass up. That's the that's the way they like to preserve. 04:52.45 David Howe Like that's what I took pictures of at least but the rest of the body could have been the other way I don't remember like I I Just you're probably right? Um, either way it wasn't like killed and butchered it just like died and then got like flooded over and deposited in sediment. 04:58.87 Captain Sad Me go. 05:09.26 Captain Sad Lots of post step stuff. Lots of movement of bones and whatnot. So it's interesting I was fun to be but paleontologist for the weekend. 05:10.20 David Howe Um, yeah, you can see it. Yeah, it was cool. Um, yeah, this year they had a bunch of stuff exposed to. They're on the tusk which was super cool. Um. 05:29.57 David Howe Yeah, it was just like 1 of those cool things. A lot of people came out that I haven't seen in years just like because ever wants to come see a mammoth. Ah yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm always given beer food. 05:34.61 Captain Sad Also some of the best field accommodations you could have there's a house. It's it's fantastic. So. 05:46.10 alifeinruins So there was ah we got a question from someone on the ruins podcast Recently they're interested in doing archeology in graduate school and asked like hey so they asked about accommodations and like just ask like So what can I expect and what I had to tell them was it depends on the project. 05:54.23 David Howe A. 06:01.92 David Howe Yeah. 06:03.58 alifeinruins Has nothing to do with the kind of archeology you're doing or where you're located as everything to do with the project itself. What the funds are what the deal is you could be in a hotel you could be in a tent you could be in a car. It all just all just depends. 06:15.47 David Howe Um, yeah. 06:16.73 Captain Sad Yeah I feel like you you could in funding can vary but it's the way the people organize it and take into account stuff because but I've heard horror stories and especially like overseas of people not being prepared to be in that country. 06:26.24 David Howe Ah. 06:35.72 Captain Sad Speak the language or anything like that and and and having like a completely awful time. They had all the money in the world to do that. But they never took the steps go actually do that So it's it's It's really is a crapshoot and checking with people who've taken field schools before is probably like the most important thing you could do. 06:51.67 David Howe Yeah, and I guess a good way to answer the the kid's question too would be like if it's a historical archeological thing in the middle of a city. Obviously you can't camp so you probably get a hotel where there's some kind of like apartment you rent the school organize that or the project. But like where we work in the middle of desert in Wyoming. It's like you just camp out right next to the site because why not it's way cheaper. Um. 07:16.42 alifeinruins Yeah I mean like well in the nearest hotel is like an hour away and it's going to be like in the town of Buffalo that has maybe a motel 8 if you're lucky you know so it's like yeah, it's like very much like you know. 07:25.18 David Howe Yeah. 07:26.31 Captain Sad Or or Scum dance. 07:32.96 alifeinruins At Hell God What are you gonna do camp and guernsey That's like a you know it's It's just not. Ah, yeah, yeah, that was. 07:35.15 David Howe Yeah. 07:37.15 Captain Sad No Harville We're going to Sunrise man one when lynch was weird because you guys were in like a um monastery or I were like in an old church thing right. 07:48.39 David Howe A priory. 07:49.25 alifeinruins Yeah, lynch was lynch was weird. Um, the first year they're out there that that did camp at the site and used the landowner's house and quickly with like 8 kids and the landowner it was just too busy and so then we were able to set up accommodations in. A Catholic Maternity Hospital turned into basically a bed and breakfast. Um very well turn and then like in the fucking dominican republic I'm but staying at a sports illustrated times share you know? So. It's like all very much like. 08:14.40 Captain Sad It's a wild turn on. 08:24.33 Captain Sad Ah. 08:25.57 alifeinruins I don't know what to say you know I'm very excited to go back next week and get back in there and to live at a goddamn all inclusive resort for for a week and have a whole place to myself. 08:27.13 David Howe Move. 08:33.51 David Howe Is the flight and stuff paid for too I Guess it's a question we should ask for the someone listening. Okay, but for students doing the fields. Well there. 08:41.76 alifeinruins My research budget's covering it if you don't have research budget. That's the deal. It's like you got to pay. The prices weren't too bad like I think mine total was like eight hundred bucks and I only booked it like a week ago so like a three week notice um to an international flight to the Dr R. 08:42.66 Captain Sad So if you don't have a race. 08:59.56 alifeinruins That's usually the catch if you can if you can afford to get to this project in the drr everything else is taken care of and that's a pretty pretty sweet deal I think. 09:04.49 David Howe Gotcha. 09:09.48 Captain Sad Older I think there's an there's ah like a push and ah ah, an attempt to make these things cheaper more affordable have scholarships etc because they are course classes in most cases so you have to pay the the overhead of the school. Which can be a lot and then your your travel. Um, usually your foods covered etc. But there is a push and there are good organizations out there that will give you scholarships and help and aid with with field schools because they are They can be painfully. 09:43.55 David Howe Yeah. 09:44.21 alifeinruins And and it's usually food costs like after doing some of the budgets with Doug and Marcel the single most expensive thing running a project is always food cost and I know to to lighten that load to make the suit boulder field school cheaper doug and Kc basically like breakfast is on your own. 09:44.28 Captain Sad Painfully expensive. 10:03.38 alifeinruins Which I hate it I think out of the but like lunch should be on your own like breakfast is the most important meal for field school having a hot breakfast where you can get the day started and have that energy So there. 10:04.79 Captain Sad On your unknown. 10:13.44 David Howe Um, you're at my whole field school every every meal was on us I didn't think about that? Yeah yeah, like breakfast lunch and dinner. 10:17.79 Captain Sad Oh shit I'd be miserable. 10:21.40 alifeinruins Yeah, and and like so I mean mostly students spent their weekends like having to go because like the town a lynch they're supermarket going to support us, especially some of those Colorado kids that are fucking vegans like there's no vegan food in Lynch Nebraska you know what? I mean. 10:24.85 David Howe Yeah. 10:38.73 David Howe Yeah. 10:40.22 Captain Sad Ah, yeah. 10:40.62 alifeinruins Um, or the vegetables that they needed so they'd have to go like sioux falls or somewhere to to load up. So I mean it. 10:46.63 David Howe That's ah, a good point to sorry I'll let you finish there but ah um I saw a recent article about like ableism and archeology and and fieldwork and stuff and it made me think both ways on the topic but like there's no way to get around. Getting into a giant trench with units and digging with a shovel in a wheelchair like you can't do it unless you like made a specific ramp and like you know I mean I guess I shouldn't say you can't you could do it. It's just it's already physically demanding enough for people who are able to walk and crawl in there and dig and lift buckets and things. So. I do understand. But though that somebody in a wheelchair that can't walk or has you know is missing an arm or like or something like they or somebody with just like R a like rheumatoid Arthritis that can't do too much like what if they want to be an archeologist. How do they do it?? um. And like I guess you would just do mostly lab work but a lot of the stuff is in the field. So That's another thing you got to think about. Um, yeah. 11:47.60 Captain Sad I Think there's and I think there are field schools that you could probably find that are less intensive and in those sorts of Mobility ways. Maybe something historic where you're a you're going out in the field. Yeah well I mean you know. 11:59.77 David Howe Yeah, there's always live work. Yeah. 12:06.15 Captain Sad It's it seems like a really difficult topic like I think we want We always want to include everyone but the reality sometimes the reality of our discipline is that it's backbreaking work in remote areas that are hard to get to and I don't know it's difficult. 12:12.17 David Howe Ah. 12:19.29 David Howe Um, yeah. 12:22.59 David Howe Yeah. 12:22.95 alifeinruins And yeah and I don't think that's not a comment on to prejudice against disabled folks in various shapes. It's like it's like it's the same. It can be this very similar to construction work right. 12:29.16 David Howe Chair. 12:35.78 David Howe Yeah. 12:37.95 alifeinruins It's like if you can't physically get there or or be able to move or do these things. It's like what you can't yeah I know I don't know there's a very big more push like Mississippi state. 12:43.64 David Howe Yeah. 12:49.60 alifeinruins Doing a curatorial field school. So there's definitely a lot more pushes for folks who want to be engaged actively in archaeological collections and parts of the archaeological excavation process to get that training to be able to to do the hands-on research which I'm a huge proponent of and I do know sometimes gets tricky with um, you know, even. 12:50.88 David Howe A. 13:09.39 alifeinruins 1 of the things that we faced a lot is ah ah single parent households not being able to do field schools because like what are their kids doing um or even. 13:18.73 Captain Sad Yeah, like you can't you you cannot bring your kid most days to like it's probably against you university policy. Let alone like the dangers of bringing someone out to lynch when it's what a ° and and miserable. 13:20.99 David Howe No oh right. 13:31.10 David Howe Yeah, or if you're doing school just as of someone who runs a family and has to work like you can't just leave for six weeks for a field school or four weeks yeah 13:34.19 alifeinruins Now. 13:42.80 alifeinruins Yeah, or even when it comes the diet stuff like don't care if you're vegan or vegetarian. But so you better be taking omega 3 pills like if you're not taking your supplements. You will not have a fun time out here and honestly I love those kids because especially in hot days. They're like coal mines and the canaries if the vegans start going down I know I need to get everyone else drinking water. They're the first ones to go and it's like all right? So now everyone stop what you're doing vegans go in the shade drink water take your omega three pills. Everyone else start jugging. It's like there's that rank because they're not getting the you know it's just like field work I don't care about your choices. I mean there's 1 poor kid we had 1 year who's going through a multitude of of medical issues. 14:02.91 David Howe Ah. 14:04.44 Captain Sad Ah. 14:08.67 David Howe Yeah. 14:22.80 alifeinruins And we're like dude we respect your decision to be a ah vegan but you did not bring any of the supplements you needed for you. You are going to eat this fucking chicken breast because or you will die if it helps it came from down the street. It was an organic free range chicken. 14:34.62 David Howe Um, yeah. 14:38.87 David Howe Yeah I mean the other option is because he would go to town and get food or because you didn't bring it. Yeah yeah, oh oh I bet you miss supplements as in like pills I was like oh. 14:41.25 alifeinruins And like or you're done. Yeah I mean like it was it was the supplement issue. It's like they didn't have to to those lifestyles you have to supplement? yeah like they weren't taking because of a vegan diet does not provide. 14:44.21 Captain Sad Yeah. 14:58.12 alifeinruins All the necessary nutrients you need so like it it showed so they didn't bring them and it's like you can go home. You can fail the course or like whatever the deal is or you can just eat this chicken breast and you will be fine. 15:00.51 David Howe Um, ah. 15:11.17 David Howe Yeah, um, that also reminds me too when I was doing I guess I did two field schools like I did topper. It was just like a month out there and then the next month I did my actual like paid for fields school. Um at topper though and Laprelle here in Wyoming and Warren. Like there's always like cook rotations like people help cook and there's a cooking 10 or a cooking kitchen where everyone cooks and like then you have a like a buffet style like you walk down the table like making making your dinner essentially um and that was the same at topper. But at the time I had to be medically it was medically necessary I was um. Gluten free and like everything it was the souths. Everything was just like fried fucking like really delicious food and I couldn't eat a lot of it and especially sandwiches at lunch too. So I would just have to eat. Um, you know cold cuts on its own and then um. Gluten free bread taste disgusting and usually if they refrigerated it so that was hard. But anyway the the person cooking every day would be like can you eat this. Can you eat this and I was just learning about gluten free and I was like I think so and she was like Cornsarch is just corn and I was like I don't know probably not so she had to make like a specific thing. Me and my friend Kelsey who was also gluten free and like behind our back she would call us the celiac twins um because like she just hated having to cook a separate meal. So just be aware of that like and especially the one where I had to bring my own food every time like I had a cooler with ice in it and I just prayed. 16:36.93 Captain Sad Yeah. 16:42.67 David Howe That the you know ice wasn't melted. 16:44.50 Captain Sad I Think I think you can solve that at least initially with the communication with your professors or being upfront about these things and sometimes you might not be able to do that field school. You might not be able to do it because of your restrictions and that's that's just life. That's just. Way things are but you have to upfront tell these tell people these things. Otherwise they're not gonna be able to prep to ultimately because they have to keep you safe for the next like month or so you know and and it's rough environments. It's Hot. You're gonna be miserable. They need they need to know these things. 17:09.17 David Howe Yeah. 17:19.19 David Howe Um, and our our cook in Wyoming is always like deep like who's glute. oh oh yeah 17:21.68 Captain Sad You're muted carlson. 17:21.94 alifeinruins And as that also goes with serum too I mean like when I was doing the pipeline Mountain Mountain Valley pipeline project I always had breakfast and you have to bring your lunch bowl around like there is sometimes like there was one part of the project that was like an hour out that we did stop at a gas station. And everyone knows gas stations in the south all have Kitchens and so people started relying on that for breakfast and then when we weren't going there half the crew wasn't doing well in the morning because they thought they're going to get like a hot chicken biscuit sandwich. It's like yeah, just got to just got to do it. 17:56.78 David Howe Yeah, well on that depressing note um I hope you do like if you want to do a field school check with the professors check with the school like it should be fine and I'd say most of them are probably fed um and like you should have accommodations. But if you're not if you can't sleep outside in a tent. Allergic to pollen like be upfront about that and make sure you ask those questions? Um, but yeah, be sure to rate and review the podcast. We appreciate it. Thanks for sending us the questions. Connor. 18:25.79 David Howe Yeah. 18:25.90 Captain Sad Ah I was just gonna hold more thing. Yeah, there is a push in and in archeology to to work with people with different abilities. So um, be aware and and ask around we can probably put you in touch with people. So yeah, but thank you once again for listening we appreciate y'all. Sorry for the Zencastr fuck up if it happened you know? Yeah absolutely you peace out. 18:45.23 alifeinruins Let us know so we can take care of it. 18:50.70 David Howe Yeah, um, all right? That's it. 18:53.97 alifeinruins And if you made it this far. You know what time it is it is time for Connor's witty joke. 19:06.93 Captain Sad Ah, ah, what do you call a number that can't keep still a roaming numeral. 19:14.87 David Howe Wow, It's pretty good. 19:20.78 alifeinruins Scrape in the bottle of the barrel on that one connor. 19:24.49 Captain Sad Um, that's where I live I. 19:26.58 alifeinruins Okay, with that we're up.