00:02.46 alifeinruins Welcomed episode one sixty of a life ruins podcast rein investigate the careers and ruins of got to welcomed to episode one sixty of a life ruins podcast reinvestigate the careers and research of those living life ruins. 00:08.10 David Howe Yeah corn pop. 00:16.63 alifeinruins I'm your host Carlton go and I am joined by my co-host Conor John and David Howe this week it is the 3 of us are back together and we are going to discuss a paper that recently just came out of american antiquity and the title of that paper I'm sure. Those within the archeology realm of seen. This is the injury costs of napping ah by gala at all and napping spelled k n a p p I n g not napping is in what I was just doing before this podcast take a little snooze. Um and this caught our attention. Ah. Because you know David has recently just came in from a came back sorry from a nap-in and the 3 of us have spent a fair amount of time around flintnappers during our time at the University Of Wyoming and continue to you know we're always napper adjacent in some way. Shape. 01:12.34 David Howe I Like that. 01:13.26 alifeinruins Or form. So it's just it's just one of those. There's 3 primary skills of archeology stones bones and pots. Um, and when you're in departments that specifically research. Ah populations and culture prior to the development of ceramics get a lot of stones and bones and usually those 2 are pretty fucking related especially when you're at the University Of Wyoming where you're just looking at giant furry elephants and bison that have been cut the fuck up by stone toolsles in 1 way shape or form. So here here. We are with this paper. So um. 01:43.57 John Connor He. 01:49.42 alifeinruins Connor were you the one that shared this article article in the group chat first. 01:53.10 John Connor Yeah, yeah, I um I encountered it through some folks at work. You know these things get passed around through different medium people. Whatever I mean it's always the gossip goes around and this was given to me by ah Charles Koenig and you know it just it's struck our interest because it's it's an interesting principle. An idea that's something that we kind of something that hasn't been talked about ah ah Crapton in literature I mean I think we all talked about it anecdotaldotally like ah in different informal locations. But. Yeah, so I caught my caught my attention I sent it off to you guys and as I kind of dive deeper into it I think we all had some questions. 02:39.91 David Howe Yeah, should I go ahead and read the ah the end show I think I'll I'll try to take a stab at it or the abstract. 02:42.52 alifeinruins Yeah, and and mind you when we when we looked at this the first name that popped out of this article was good old met and Aaron we've talked about on this podcast a couple of times now this was the same person that had an article what came out. Stating that like clovis points couldn't kill mammoths and me and kongmer tore this shit to shreds. Um, and so when we started looking at the author list. Ah you know Gaa at all a lot of them are Aaron's men and erarons like grad students part of these previous studies. So like. I looked at this and like I have fucking questions. Um because I like men Aaron's tenure approach quantity over quality of articles like just fucking shotgun spread. Ah. Bunch of science out there and get get noticed and yeah I don't know. 03:46.35 John Connor I Mean he's making he's making a splash in the in archeology because of it I mean he's taking topics that we might not have defined or talked about in the literature and talking about them. Um might not be in the most like theoretical and deepest kind of way but he's bringing them up. 03:56.21 alifeinruins Of in here. 04:01.85 alifeinruins Now. 04:03.48 John Connor Which is a good So good firing solution If you're going to try to be in Academia is to hit topics that are unpublished upon or and and do basic research on all bunch of this stuff. 04:10.24 David Howe Yeah. 04:12.46 alifeinruins Absolutely are finding Journals that are not archeology- related like he published something on hall like Bison hooves can be turned into glue and submitted that to like the journal of glue and it revolutionized their journal because like that's just shit. We know as archeologists but he's been really good at like finding. 04:21.34 David Howe A. 04:29.95 alifeinruins Not archeology journals putting in archaeology content that most archaeologists kind of know about but like getting it out and hitting those pubs up, but ah, honestly, yeah, great David what's the abstract you. 04:34.70 David Howe Respect honestly. 04:42.80 David Howe All right? So the abstract ah that's spanish one for at least 3000000 years napping stone has been practiced by hominin societies large and small past and present thus understanding napping nappers and napping cultures is fundamental to anthropological research around the world. Although there is a general sense that stone napping is inherently dangerous and can lead to injury little is formally specifically or systematically known about the frequency location or severity of napping injuries toward this end. We conducted a 31 question survey of 30 1 31 questions so remind you. Of modern nappers to better understand napping risks responses from 173 survey participants suggest that napping injuries are real and present hazard clear and present danger even though a majority of modern nappers use personal protective equipment. Ah oops a variety of injuries. 05:29.81 alifeinruins So the word is persistent not present. 05:38.54 David Howe Lacerations punctures achest etc can occur on nearly any part of the body. The severity of injury sustained by some of our participants is shocking and nearly one quarter of the respondents reported having sought or received professional medical attention for a flint napping related injury or flitnapping adjacent. Overall. The results of this survey suggest that there would have been likely serious even fatal cost to nappers in the past such cost may have encouraged the development of any social learning capability excuse me any social learning capacities. Possessed by Hominins or delayed the learning or exposure of young infants or children to napping. 06:13.76 alifeinruins You know what to make the science about all their claims better fucking biological and bio archeological examination of Hominin and like hunting and gathering societies fucking digits for lacerations. None of that is present. This whole article is like we. 06:18.41 David Howe Science. 06:26.43 John Connor Yeah. 06:31.44 alifeinruins Sent out a survey and we're just going to look at the responses mind you as we've talked about in this podcast. So many God times like modern people that flintnap as a hobby are not the same as people who had to do it as part of living so really making these comparisons. Is not adequate in my opinion. 06:52.71 John Connor Yeah, and I so I think I think taking the bio Anth approach really doing the skeletal analysis. But also you could consult the ethnic graphic record to see how folks were using stone in the past and even creating tools I mean that's that's a simpler step back and not as far. But you could talk about these things in a way that is a better analogy than just modern humans and there's none of that even mentioned in here. There's no archaeology in this paper until the very end of it. It's all just modern day analysis of flint napping. 07:25.99 David Howe Yeah, it's just a Buzzfeed article. 07:28.61 alifeinruins Yeah, yeah, it's just a fucking Buzzfeed article I'm I'm getting wound up by this article the more that I like look into it. 07:33.63 David Howe No I mean I think it's great. It's a cool. It's cool thing to read. It's just like so bizarrely like simple yet So unnecessarily precessual at the same time like I don't I don't know how to exploit it. 07:46.18 John Connor Yeah. 07:48.13 alifeinruins It's like I like the concept because we all have stories about like a friend or the time that we fucked up while flit napping and they took that concept but they didn't pass the baton like they pulled up all this data and there was like a part 2 of like we need to look at comparisons and they're just like no. It's just this is I mean for example, there's a couple tables in here and thisru got my first time I got pissed like what is your favorite prehistoric cultured replicate fucking canceled. It's just like a list of shit who cares at the end. It's like this is a meaningless table. We don't need this table 2 what artifact type. Do you prefer to produce the most also fucking meaningless but I I would have like to have seen like a followup article out of you know, like which artifact type are you most able to produce that would have been like to to at least illustrate the competency of the flintnappers that they have don't have that. 08:26.89 David Howe I Also what. 08:36.10 David Howe Yeah, yeah, or better question which ones have you broken something on or which ones have you cut yourself on. Mr. 08:40.85 alifeinruins Table 3 What is your. Yeah, it's like So what? what my favorite is my favorite thing to produce is an arrowhead have ever fucking done. It. No. 08:45.28 John Connor Very specific and. 08:50.90 David Howe Speaking of it says what is your favorite prehistoric culture to replicate fish Tale Flakes Folsom General Arrowheads General buy faces, general blades late Prehistoric period like these things are I mean I get it is hard to quantify like or qualify all of that. 09:06.15 alifeinruins What the fuck does plains Indian mean like that Also like there's paleo Indian there and folsom like whoever came up with this table should be shot like whoever whoever came up with this table fuck it. 09:15.71 David Howe Wow. Did they listen to this. 09:17.15 John Connor there's 20 there's there's 28 unique responses. There's 28 different types of thing. Yeah, like that's crazy I mean the like summer exit put it into like north american cultures put it into time periods do something. That's besides. 09:25.83 alifeinruins Open. So. 09:31.87 John Connor The shotgun blast of like 28 different things. It doesn't mean anything to me, you know. 09:35.57 alifeinruins Asian mesolithic like it's a danish Neil I think like this is so bad like whoever gave up with this table is fuck. 09:44.16 John Connor All right right. 09:45.81 David Howe Um, another thing too though that possibly ah like I don't see added in here is like just saw testicles in one of the tables. Um that it doesn't say what stage. Reduction or what stage like they were at so like a giant giant spall like it's pretty easy not to cut yourself because you're cut like taking big giant flakes off but like the most times I've cut myself is doing very precise direct percussion on a small piece specifically your obsidian. Or even pressure flaking I've like busted the palm of my hand open. Um and that's not something at least that I saw on here mentioned but more so it just quantifies the where the pain is ah and like tolls and I fate the troll Toll Feet Eyes Hams. Nails Carpal Tunnel Rear end testicles. Elpu rear end. 10:41.15 John Connor Yeah, yeah, so I think the front part of this article specifically these tables that we're talking about doesn't really add a bunch or do anything for me. 10:49.10 alifeinruins table table 3 what is your preferred stowed raw tool like stone raw material to work flint but then they list like 8 other different kinds of flints. It's like it's like what. 10:59.97 David Howe I Guess it's just like general. They don't remember but it wasn't obsidian. 11:06.10 alifeinruins And then first of all who the cul this is fucking America you're publishing an american antiquity. It's called fucking churchrt you're like you're public. You should know better. But I mean these are the same people that were fucking launching modern day arrowheads from a £30 bow and said you know what can't kill a mammoth. So now I'm getting personal. 11:12.15 David Howe Arlton. 11:19.10 John Connor Who whoa who who who who who all right? just. 11:24.10 David Howe Let's bring it down a notch. 11:25.25 alifeinruins Still god this is so stupid. What the fuck is Republican night 11:30.72 John Connor I Don't know that's a good. It's a good question send us ah send us an email if you know what that is or if it's real. Um, but so that's. 11:34.40 alifeinruins Oh it actually says we do not exactly we do not know exactly what is meant by Republican Night our best guest is republican river jasper in Nebraska it is also known as s smokey hill so now all those are wrong that is it's called Smoky Hill jasper 11:47.54 John Connor I think yeah yeah, um, but I do think this this first part these first like 3 tables highlights their like shotgun approach so like 31 questions about flint napping. 11:47.72 David Howe It's definitely not woka light. 12:02.36 John Connor Seems like an excessive amount like I think David highlighted as part of that is just that you're gathering too much data at that point. 12:09.17 David Howe Yeah, it's just it's just like I guess though too when you're interviewing a bunch of people that don't necessarily practice science like they're going to give you long-winded paragraphs of Information. So like. How else would you kind of quantify all this stuff and put it into a table because it's like yeah I don't know like yeah. 12:31.12 John Connor I mean I I think you get you could give them survey options and and then other as well I think that might yeah I think there's there's good questions you can ask it just seems like this is very qualitative answers then then are put into quantitative analysis. 12:36.36 David Howe That would of them there. Yeah. 12:50.83 John Connor Which is something that I think is hard for us to grasp. 12:55.87 David Howe Something just refreshed in the bottom of my screen am I good. Okay, ah was the last thing you said before I cut out. 12:59.29 alifeinruins You're good. 13:07.61 John Connor Oh so I mean we're they're taking qualitative data um non numbers. Not categorical stuff and putting it into kind of a quantitative analysis and that's that's hard for me to follow and I think these tables highlight the shotgun. 13:23.31 John Connor Blast Effect that is not really teaching me a bunch I think. 13:24.20 David Howe The yeah, just. 13:26.97 alifeinruins I Want to know the competency of the people that submitted Surveys like that's that's going to give me a lot more information and how to interpret the data. 13:39.34 David Howe Well, it does say like skill level. 13:40.88 John Connor They did um they did mention that yeah they said let's see um the first participant information and napping habits so they self identify their napping skill ranging from. 13:44.79 alifeinruins What table is that. 13:58.34 John Connor Novice to master 26 of our respondents identified as novice 29% intermediate 52 or 30% as experienced 20% 20% as expert and 4.62 as master. 14:07.80 alifeinruins But what the fuck does that mean. 14:13.17 David Howe Well, that's the thing it's it's all to spectrum and it's all relative like I would personally call somebody a flintnapper if they can reduce a biface down to a usable blank I guess but then a great flintnapper I'd say can make clo it I don't know like. 14:29.84 alifeinruins Yeah. 14:31.10 John Connor And there's like consistency of it too being able to do it every time I think is something but they also do mention. 14:31.75 David Howe There's no. 14:36.46 David Howe Yeah. 14:38.26 alifeinruins I mean like 50% of respondents napping is done for educational research purposes 36 is a hobby and 10 percent listed for other reasons. Yeah I don't. Like I mean that's the problem with like data clerk like if survey like I've seen bad surveys and if you're just giving like a relative scale which I don't know how Nicholas at all or galla at all. Did this. It's like did they have definitions for those skill levels because if not that's problematic in my opinion. 15:07.75 John Connor Yeah, definitely. 15:11.81 alifeinruins It's like I would consider myself I want to consider myself a novice like I know how to reduce a flake do I Know how to make a stone tool like I could maybe make a scraper but I have problems I can't thin flakes yet. 15:24.44 John Connor Yeah, and when do you when do you like go from a novice to an intermediate is that because is that the thinning flakes or you know how? how do you define that in a way that's replicable. 15:25.76 David Howe Ah, yeah. 15:34.38 alifeinruins Now because some of these you go to the table 5 the variety of injuries reported by respondents like some of these I'm like how the fuck did you do this like smack leg. Got it that I do that every time like i'm. Bashing like I'm always I always have bruises in my thighs. 15:53.57 John Connor Okay, okay, yeah. 15:55.76 David Howe Yeah, cut wrists deep cut deep cut to fingers deep cuts to hit like what is deep cut up. 16:01.99 alifeinruins Nearly broken rib How the fuck do you? Where's the genital part because someone talked about like what the testicles smack testicles like that's someone not like to me that's that's and a novice like some of these injuries I could be like that's a novice. 16:04.29 John Connor Yeah, so then. 16:11.71 David Howe Ah, the broken rib would be. 16:20.19 alifeinruins Like when I when I taught intro to archeology for Su boulder and we had flint napping day I can tell people who weren't paying the fuck attention based on their injuries or at least people that had some sort of athletic ability in the past like I've never bashed my fingers in like I've never missed the rock or like hit my knee like there's. 16:26.85 David Howe And. 16:38.99 alifeinruins And I've never seen an expert do that shit like the worst end I've ever got was when I was flint napping Obsidian in fucking chacos. Yeah I've seen people lastrate the hell out of their fingers before I haven't I mean I'd get cuts. 16:43.98 John Connor Yeah. 16:47.11 David Howe That's my worst experience too. Got right up in there took a step right through my foot. Um. 16:50.51 John Connor Yeah, that. 16:57.38 David Howe I would say nearly broken rib is either from like a miss swing with a billet or some kind of issue with an indirect stick or a punch like you just fell on it or something I don't know. 16:58.40 alifeinruins But. 17:07.94 John Connor Yeah, yeah I can see that but it's the same thing with these tables like they start big and they give you all this information and then they just keep narrowing it down. Why don't you just give me like the summarized information I don't know what good the Smash Testicle does. 17:26.14 David Howe Got a story about that but that we should take into the next segment. 17:27.63 John Connor For me.