00:00.00 alifeinruins Welcome to episode one fifty nine of life ruins podcast reinvestigate the careers and research of those living life ruined today. It's just me, no Connor and David they're off doing something else. They're about to actually start living together here shortly. So con or David is packing up the bus. And ah getting ready to move to Wyoming to live in Connor's front porch in the good old ethnociology bus. But today we have fellow apn host Dr Andrew Kinkea from the pseudoareology podcast here at this today. Ah Andrew how are you doing this afternoon ma'am. 00:32.48 Andrew What's up. It's so nice to be here man um, you know it's just you and I now and I think maybe you should just drop those other 2 guys man and just the 2 of us can rule the Apn you know, but we don't even yeah yeah. 00:44.73 alifeinruins Yeah, now that we got rid of the dirt Now it's just Sky's the limit. 00:49.97 Andrew And we don't even need Chris we'll just it's just you and me man we should. We should go for it anyway, it's it's ah it's so good to be here and it's so nice to talk to a fellow podcaster you know because. 00:52.49 alifeinruins What is. 01:04.50 Andrew In our world. It's like I'll hear your show or you'll hear my show you know and the same as true for the other podcast casters on the apn but like none of us really know each other you know none of us interact almost at all like I've I haven't even met everyone on like the crm podcast. You know I've heard their voice a hundred times. But I've never met them in person. So it's it's so nice to meet you. Ah, although be it over you know the magic of Zencastr it's it's nice to just kind of hang out and talk a little bit. 01:35.91 alifeinruins I yeah man. Absolutely I think I've only met I met the crm guys before we even had a podcast. So I think we met up with Chris at Essay Albuquerque just to like sign paperwork before we even recorded our first show so we kind of got to meet them through that whole debacle. 01:43.80 Andrew Right? right. 01:52.43 alifeinruins And our first episode with them is talking about the Meoo movement and me Conor David like we're so out of our depth and no one wants to hear a group of sticks predominantly white men talk about anything as it relates to women in the field of archeology. So we just kept our mouths got you know it was crazy. You would ah who would have thought and then um, yeah I've happened to meet. 02:04.15 Andrew No, really, you don't say ah. 02:10.90 alifeinruins Um, the dirt podcast in person once or twice and then um Jessica Yuinto from heritage voices and the opportunity to meet her. Um rather than that man. Yeah, it's it's great to add to the list of of folks that we know in fact, like because I listened to your show when it started coming back up. 02:11.60 Andrew Um, yeah, right right. 02:21.19 Andrew Um, yeah. 02:26.50 alifeinruins And then I listened it in the car with my mom once and I'm pretty sure you're her favorite podcast because she loves just like how like 30 minutes and how fun it is and like and it's just like topics and archeology that she's like familiar with you know as she's like what's wrong with Indiana Jones and the crystal skull and I'm like well Kobe let me explain why this is absolute bullshit. 02:29.91 Andrew Guess. 02:46.22 alifeinruins Or a better. Yeah, let's Dr can kill explain it to you. 02:46.44 Andrew Yeah, it's right? and and I'll do it with a gentle touch. You know because I mean I Love Indiana Jones but um, what was fun about that one is I actually was a double major in archeology and Film. So I can kind of reallyally go deep on the film side and. Things and be like look you know there's real problems with this movie from this side just you know in terms of a fully functioning Narrative. It's just kind of long and boring and moves real Slow. You know. So Anyway, man I'm so glad that you're that your mom. Ah you know that she likes me Best man. 03:11.43 alifeinruins There. 03:18.89 alifeinruins Yeah I mean like Bob Kelly's her favorite archeologist. So I mean like I'm kind of used to like other people taking the spotlight away from her ah from her favorite child. Um, but I was curious about that because you have ah a b a in anthropology and film studies from youc's Santa Barbara but you also have an MA and anthro and a minor in theater from was it. 03:20.92 Andrew Um, right, Good good. Yeah yeah, yeah. 03:35.65 Andrew Yes, it was. Yeah oh right? Yeah, it's California State University so that's northridge it's in the valley area of Los Angeles so yeah from riverside. 03:38.45 alifeinruins California State University Cs like um, the Csu I'm familiar with is Colorado state so is it California State University gotcha and then your ph d and anthro from ah within my archaeology focus. You see her. 03:54.41 Andrew Yep I I am I I yeah I don't I don't want to know the rest of the world. This is california man isn't that the best place I mean that's what Jim Morrison says ah yeah I took the world's slowest trip. 03:54.59 alifeinruins River snut so you're like a California boy like through and through never never got out. 04:10.75 Andrew Down the California coast so I'm originally from the bay area and then I went to like Santa Barbara that went a little lower and I went to the l a area and then ultimately to riverside. So yeah I have pretty much kind of done a tour of California throughout my life and I've been very fortunate in terms of. Just the people I've met and who I've worked with and all that kind of good stuff. So I got no complaints. 04:32.22 alifeinruins It sweet man and you're currently a professor of archeology at what the hell is this place. It's a it's ven Tur vent that has a lot of it's like it's a really long you know abbreviation here. But it's like vent. 04:41.56 Andrew Exactly at what the hell is this place. It's oh yeah, oh yeah, no, no, no, that'll mess you up. Um I'm a ah currently I'm the full time archeology professor at Moore Park College which is in Southern California it's part of the Ventura County community college district which is super long and we'll mess you up. So yeah, it's ah in terms of the area in California it's near Simi Valley or you could say about halfway between Santa Barbara and Los Angeles that kind of thing. So. 05:01.44 alifeinruins Gotcha. 05:14.24 Andrew Yeah I've been there man next year will be 20 years so crazy. So yeah. 05:16.88 alifeinruins And that's I've always enjoyed the community college system like I'm a community I didn't graduate it transferred out once I realized they didn't have an anthrop program and their historic preservation thing would have kept me there another year but like I'm mean shit I went to Northern Virginia community college and at that time second lady Jill Biden was my english teacher. 05:25.10 Andrew Right. 05:33.58 Andrew Oh my God yeah. 05:35.82 alifeinruins At the Alex and Andrea conference like yeah, like you know she was she was teaching community college english when she was ah the the vice president's ah partner like I've always loved the community college system and like so how is that and and my the guy that got me into anthropology. You know he was also the zoareologist at Catholic University in Dc and then like taught on the side at archaeology at the community college and he always loved teaching community college classes over of the catholic stuff because he said it gave him like way more freedom. He had to interact more closely with students and he kind of got to do like a lot more in the state. 05:52.80 Andrew Okay. 06:00.22 Andrew Yeah, yeah. 06:07.81 Andrew Yeah, it's I mean it really is the dream gig I think I think it's what college should be and what unfortunately a lot of 4 year worlds aren't so much anymore meaning that it's really collaborative. It's really relaxed. My. 06:09.68 alifeinruins Then he was able to in Dc. 06:27.23 Andrew Best closest friends in terms of the fellow faculty are a chemist and a theater person. You know so I get to know like all kinds of people from all different walks of academic life and that part I just I really treasure that it's really just fun like I don't want to talk about anthro all day. Like I want to know like oh wow your chemistry stuff that's interesting. You know so I I really enjoy that I enjoy the students it is in terms of teaching. It's 5 and 5 right? So yeah, now five five plus I do 6 and 6 because 06:53.72 alifeinruins Holy shit I thought 4 four was like a full load but a five five 07:03.91 Andrew Baby needs new shoes. You know what? I mean so that's a little little extra extra cash on the side. So. It's I mean you are teaching all the time you're doing something like just about every day you know, um and some days that man doing 3 in a row can be really taxing. You know what. Teaching you know three classes back to back on a day at the end of that third class you're just kind of like boy I feel kind of loopy. Yeah, it's it's like doing 3 comedy shows back to back. it's it's tiring um 07:29.10 alifeinruins And oh my God I can't even sort of these all archeology classes or do you have to do like some Gen Eds like public speaking here and there. 07:40.70 Andrew No, it's all going to be um, anthro stuff but in terms of what the department needs and that kind of stuff since I'm the archeologist a typical semester would be like 2 archeologies one specialty class like mysteries in the ancient maya or something like that 1 um I have this section of Saturday classes where it's all day Saturday and we learn real archeological techniques. So one of those and then one maybe fill in the blank like bioanthro or cultural anthro or something like that where there might not be quite enough archeology stuff to do so I'll have to dip out to the other side just for a bit. 08:15.80 alifeinruins And okay, but so generally the same students like this is a 2 year kind of associates level. Okay. 08:17.60 Andrew So yeah, that it is yeah so that that's that world but the big class is even an intro to archeology but even something like a biolanthrop. Whatever I mean you get, There's a ton of non majors. You know which I really like I like being the hook. 08:35.40 alifeinruins Right? Sweet I know and so like your students also go to field school through this so they can go into the sierra market without yeah and I've always found those students like when I worked at Fort Lewis College Our crew chief was a current student. 08:36.16 Andrew You know, like hey come try out this archeology stuff. It's pretty fun. 08:44.26 Andrew Yeah, oh yeah. 08:55.10 alifeinruins In the program but he had his associates from like a community college in New Mexico and had been working toar influ 6 years and this kid who recently graduated with his bachelors but like he knew more about the southwestern pueblo 1 2 stuff than like me and Jesse Tune like we were students were asking us like hey what's this pottery and we're like. No fucking clue Kagan what is this potter you know and just like and those kids are so knowledgeable. It's like if you want to do seeology go to a community college and just get that field school out of the way. So. 09:14.34 Andrew Um, right? Yeah yes, and just that that focus you know and you really can learn a lot in that little tiny world and that's what. That's what focus gets you because you know it's very difficult in the 4 year world. It's difficult for anyone but you kind of go through it and you're like I don't know this is all pretty interesting and you kind of get a general feeling for things which is fine. But. If you want a job later.. It's really great to get that specialty knowledge on local archeology wherever it is that you may live you know because that's that's where the gigs are you know. 09:52.97 alifeinruins And right in California is like pretty insular like archeology like there's it's like a whole different world even within like western archeology. It's like if you want to do California based art. You have to go to like a California school almost. But. 10:00.00 Andrew Um, it. 10:06.84 Andrew It is although recently in terms of jobs. The Crm firms are suffering so bad. They'll take anyone you know who has experience they are dying for people. But you're right in terms of like the cultural knowledge. It's like you. 10:13.97 alifeinruins So right. 10:23.54 Andrew Cross over the Sierra Nevadas and then it's its own show. You know. 10:26.90 alifeinruins You gotcha whole sweet man now when you were doing your bachelor's at Santa Barbara because you when did you finish that degree. Okay. 10:36.98 Andrew So I finished that in 95 I started as an 18 year old at Santa Barbara in the fall of 1990 um you know back in the Kirk Cobain days and I was there through the the mid 90 s and then I um I went to. Northridge right? like Ninety Eight Ninety nine right in there and then I went to riverside and finally finished there in 2009 I believe but throughout that time I would just go to Belize in the summers. The first year I did that was in 9093 and then it was almost. Every summer after that I'd go for sometimes as long as four months 11:15.31 alifeinruins Gotcha because I was curious like my ph d advisor Dr Douglas Spanfor got his ph d from uc Santa Barbara but I think in like 88 or 89 under joke I'm so like you just yeah, you just missed him my guess. 11:20.71 Andrew Oh yeah, all right? Ah so yeah I just I just know his name but Mike Jocom I worked with um, a bunch you know and I actually went to Germany with him. 11:36.44 alifeinruins Okay, that's right so like I'm really fascinated by by the work you've done in in Belize and like what caught me onto it was um, your episode ah of 1 one 114 of The Pseudo Archeology Podcast just titled the Maya andottases I had no idea. 11:38.12 Andrew One one summer yeah joke him's great. 11:52.90 Andrew React react. 11:56.19 alifeinruins Like just from listening to your podcast. You know you started how many episodes have you recorded at this point like almost what because you rebooted an older speed. Yeah. 12:01.36 Andrew I mean I think the first episode was 94 was the reboot and it's up towards 171 or something like that. So whatever it's 20 and some 23 episodes I don't know whatever it is somewhere in there. Yeah yeah, that's right. 12:11.10 alifeinruins And you're like buy and you come out biweekly so like every other week an episode drops on a Wednesday and so and I've been following your podcast since it's come out mostly since you started like creeping up on a life in ruins on our monthly meetings at download like. 12:22.00 Andrew Um, was yeah you you did. 12:26.56 alifeinruins Like who the fuck is this like out of nowhere. You just like popped up and you got this following and Meek Conor and David were just like wait a minute. It's taken us years to get to this point and here's here's King Killa just like crawling after us like sprinting not even crawling like what the fuck. 12:38.18 Andrew Um, that's that's so funny that you notice that because I had my eyes laser focused on you guys I'm like okay these fools right up here I'm gonna catch them. You know and and then it just started to go but um. 12:51.31 alifeinruins Like hope that. 12:56.79 Andrew I have it in some ways easier because the pseudo archeology podcast is very palatable to like a wide audience you know and that was one of the reasons I um started it again just because it had lain dormant for years like 5 years or something like that and they still had a handful of people that would download it every month 13:08.99 alifeinruins The head. 13:15.93 Andrew And that's how that's why we started it again because I was talking to Chris and he's like we have this one. It's been sitting. Nobody's in anything but people still tune in I'm like deb you know, like look I'll sit in the seat you know, um, let's do this There's an audience that wants this so that first push of mine was sort of. Made possible by very forgiving and wanting general public. You know if that makes sense so I I had a little bit of ah of a tailwind. You know. 13:44.30 alifeinruins Yeah, but it was great and so like just list because you you take on these topics of just like you know what? Pseud archeology do but they also talk about like pseudoar adjacent like your story of the weird place in California where you brought your compass and your friends when you're like 12 and I just imagine it being like stranger things might be. 13:53.58 Andrew Um, yeah. 14:00.24 Andrew Oh yeah, the mystery spot it was exactly like stranger things like the yeah those are those are so so great and I have a handful more. It's so funny when I do that show I'm like. 14:04.12 alifeinruins The mystery spot I was like well I was like the mystery spot I listened to I was like what the fuck is this episode but it was just but it was so fun. 14:19.28 Andrew How many of these can I do from a story of mine when I was 12 and the answer is quite a few. Um, so I I would just remember these experiences and in terms of my age I am like the exact same age as the guys from stranger things like like to the year so when I watch that show I'm like oh it's my mom's house. Oh hey look my bike. You know it's I'm right in there. But you're you're correct that that place was like that. Um and I enjoy I think. 14:38.41 alifeinruins Right. 14:51.23 Andrew 1 of the things that that I try and do to make the show palatable is I have just fun with it. It's like lighthearted. You know I'm not here to be like oh it's so awful. What happens where you know I'm like look at this story isn't it funny I think it's funny. You know and so and to have the audience just kind of come along on a light a light romp. Um, ah through the pseudoarcheology world. So that's that's what I shoot for you know. 15:13.15 alifeinruins Yeah, and you're so well versed especially in a lot of the the pseudoar stuff and because because you have that background of my archeology which we'll get into in the next segment and we'll delve into the archeology more So you're like hitting on the crystal scrolls you're hitting on the like ancient astronauts and like coming at it with like this background. 15:19.90 Andrew Yes, for. Yeah. 15:31.94 alifeinruins And be like if David and Anderson did like a suudo art paul you like guys have that same background where you can be authorities were like when me David and Connor are trying to talk about something we do have to do a bit of research because we're just kind of like no one. There's no pseudoar really as it relates to like paleo indian or like maze farmers like granted, there's like Salutrin that we can all rant about. But. 15:44.69 Andrew Right? right. 15:50.79 alifeinruins Nothing specific to like let me talk about these mya um Glyphs and how that's not a dude in a rocket ship. It's like it's very specific icon typical. 15:57.38 Andrew Yeah, now it helps it. It helps I try and angle it toward I do try and angle it towards um just like personal experiences I have or I where I try consciously for one segment to be like. All right on one segment I want to talk about how this relates to me or how I know a guy who did this thing or how I visited a place where I did see this personally because I think people like that first person narrative but on the flip side I have to do actually a decent part of background research too I I almost make I make like a little. Bullet point outline of what I'm going to talk about you know before I start I take a single sheet of paper and I kind of put it in thirds and I'm like okay first third's gonna be the stuff and second third gonna be this stuff and it's because you know like both you and I know doing a solo show. There's as soon as you stop talking. It's quiet. You know, even with 1 other person you can just keep going all day. But when you're by yourself. You have to have a bit of a figured out plan you know of where you're going to land how you gonna end the show you know so I I do ah depending on the show. Sometimes I can kind of wing it and know but other ones I really have to do some. 16:57.80 alifeinruins Right. 17:06.30 alifeinruins Yeah, fair enough I mean the the 2 maybe 2 or 3 so the ones I did I felt bad because the last one I didn't like planes archeology I was kind of like sick and super sniffly and like making gross throat noises and all the emails that we had from people were like that was the most. 17:06.33 Andrew Research. 17:22.33 alifeinruins Fucking traumatizing episode I ever listened to like whatever's wrong with Carlton make it stop and I was like fuck it I'm never doing this again because I was just like so plains archeology and just people are not having it I'm like I tried but. 17:30.68 Andrew Ah, no no I I listen to that and it was fine f those people like it's fine because your stories were interesting. They were honest I dug it did so. I mean that stuff happens and it's like you know what we have to put out content every other week. You guys aren't you guys like every week or something wild good god so that's a thing. It's like hey look it's carlton on his deathbed because you have to do it and so i. 17:50.58 alifeinruins Or every every week we have to come up with something. 18:03.54 Andrew I don't mind at all if that kind of stuff happens because it's part of the gig. It's like dude I had to do it. What am I supposed to do not be sick I'm sick. You know so I don't know I I had no problem with it I thought was great. No yeah I give give. 18:08.88 alifeinruins It? Yeah well fair enough what? well on that touching note we'll be right back with episode of 159 with Dr Kill it will be right back with like with 2 We'll get into some work algere in a second.