00:00.00 alifeinruins Welcome to episode 158 of a life and ruins podcast where you investigate the careers of those living a life in ruins I'm your host Connor John and I'm Jo by my co-host David Howe for this week's episode. We are joined by Joshua Heron Josh is a military veteran who's Josh is a military veteran who served in the United States army 00:00.00 Josh Welcome to episode 1 to thelight orange. 00:19.10 alifeinruins He then attended georgia southern university for his undergraduate studies and later earned his masters there as well. Josh is not only knowledgeable about british colonial and southeastern archeology but he's also the current laboratory manager of the augusta v. But also is the current laboratory manager of the augusta veterans curation program accepting the job after David's departure Josh how are you doing on this lovely night. 00:41.62 Josh I am doing great I'm doing real Well happy to be here. Yeah. 00:48.52 David Howe Yeah man, it's been a minute I Guess we're just saying in the in the chat ah like it I guess since you took my job. Um well and took my job I handed you I don't know what the word is past the torch there you go? Yeah I also need to bring up really quickly. You're the first person I've seen with a Majoras mask poster in the background. So. 00:55.88 Josh Pass the torch. Yeah. 01:06.64 David Howe Automatic points. Oh hell yeah. 01:08.51 Josh Ah, there's all 3 there majora's mask breath of the wild and the o g. 01:14.36 David Howe I gotta ask then you've been playing Tot K Okay, it's ah it's pretty good I had to put it down because it was like crack. Ah. 01:17.60 Josh Not yet. Um, ah yeah, my switch kind of just sits in there collects dust right now I don't ever think about it. But I do need to? yeah. 01:31.23 David Howe But anyway, yeah, so you're in Georgia right now you're in it or you're not. You don't live in Augusta right? Okay, cool yet. It's a canute for you. But um, anyway, yeah, so like what are you up to these days. 01:32.93 Josh No I'm close to Atlanta. 01:45.83 Josh Ah, not to you know we just started a new session training veterans at at the program and Nate and I are actually nate my code manager actually gearing up to do a few presentations this year um we're gonna be at seac and a couple of others so that's kind of been consuming my free time. 01:58.68 David Howe Oh cool, they've been pushing the research now. 02:04.24 Josh Ah, no, actually Nate and I have and it's HDLD that we will be using so yup. 02:09.37 David Howe Ah, heart will dimon like man I don't I think I made that acronym I might have admit it right a bit Chris Cart remember ah yeah that was cool. Um, sweet. Yeah, and if you guys don't. If you haven't listened in like 2 years since I haven't worked there the the veterans creation program would say yeah well Josh why don't you tell him you you worked there. 02:28.80 Josh Nice. Okay, so the veterans curation program is a program funded by the us Army Corps of engineers. Basically we train veterans in ah archeological techniques and provide them with paid time to work on their. Ah, resumes and professional growth and stuff with the goal to get them a permanent career or further their education. 02:48.15 alifeinruins So very cool and David how how long did you work there. 02:48.90 David Howe Gotcha oh hang on ah full 2018 to 20202021 yeah damn 02:50.38 Josh Grateful David um I want to. 03:00.77 alifeinruins My hip, my hip pause real quick. So David how long were you in guest. Ah at the program. 03:08.87 David Howe I started in like April Twenty or may twenty eighteen April 2018 and then ah left in like I remember Halloween 2021 so I took the brunt of covid living alone in agusa and it was not. 03:25.37 David Howe I'm where I am now because of that. Um, yeah, it was not. It was not a good time down there for me. What. 03:31.14 alifeinruins Do you? Ah do you enjoy Josh not living in Augusta. 03:39.49 David Howe Is hot. It smells and like I would describe it as like it has every chain restaurant. You could want besides like in and out but like there's nothing else there like there's just nothing to do I don't know. But anyway, we're really selling Augusta. So where exactly do you live and are you a Georgia boy. Wow that sounds like Elon Musk's new thing ah hi guys I'm in social circle Georgia. 04:12.33 alifeinruins So his new social media output. 04:20.70 alifeinruins Ah, nice. Ah, so you did you grow up in Georgia Josh. 04:53.80 David Howe Wow in Georgia. Um, so in Georgia so I guess we talk about western archeology a lot here. So like out wests sites just appear like on the surface they but like a paleo indian dropped there. It's still there. Um. Out east though. Did you get to find a lot of like stuff as a kid in your yard or. 05:20.72 David Howe Wow. 05:29.85 David Howe Gotcha. 05:33.62 David Howe Yeah, like just take a few stvs and and find some yeah I mean cool. Well yeah, ah what kind of led you? Well you you joined the military eventually but like what? ah what got you into archeology is a kid. 06:00.90 David Howe Nothing wrong with that dude. 06:09.13 alifeinruins Yeah. 06:09.98 David Howe Yeah, it's ah it's quite the opposite when it. 06:13.90 David Howe So ah, well. 06:15.72 alifeinruins Which one was your favorite. Ah. 06:21.85 alifeinruins That's. 06:22.68 David Howe That's fun. 06:23.59 Josh Um, Augusta you know for all its charms is just kind of a gross place. 06:30.81 David Howe Um, yeah, it's just different. Are you a lost world person versus Jurassic Park 1 or 3 then. 06:39.57 Josh Yeah, ah yeah. 06:41.80 David Howe Yeah. 06:48.65 Josh I live in a tiny little town called social circle um, it's right below Covington Georgia which is about 30 minutes from Atlanta oh god new social. 06:53.31 alifeinruins Ah, Jurass a kingdom or something. 06:54.34 David Howe Oh we don't talk about those but whichever one. Ah. 07:05.25 David Howe Hell yeah. 07:11.79 alifeinruins Yeah I'm a bit. 07:13.20 Josh Yelp I have been here my whole life. Um I don't know why I'm not built for the heat I hate it and I live in one of the hottest places in the us. So I grew up in a little town called Jessup and to everything you imagine a small town in Georgia would be. 07:14.83 David Howe Wise wait. Ah I didn't realize yeah, the first one came out like what ninety two ninety four wow okay I was I was a fetus. 07:30.15 Josh Ah, spent most of my time at my grandfather's in an even smaller town called Oliver which has a total population of about 250 yeah 07:34.74 David Howe I Used to be scared of the the stegosauis like when it the like my neighbors were watching it like what is sick laying on the the ground like I've freaked out dress right? tricereops right? and ah, no by all means. Ah, but I. 07:45.18 alifeinruins No yeah, no please correct this man. 07:51.47 David Howe I Remember hiding under a blanket and I threw up and like I was just scared not one single adult my life as a child was like why is he throw up so much. Maybe he needs some anxiety medicine I don't know but like I just don't eat bread. No. 07:55.40 Josh Um, yeah. 08:01.34 alifeinruins Ah, sure wasn't just you just you just farted underneath there or smell it just Okay, now it's like an I'm a huge fan of the second one I don't know that's a little bit an outlier but it's it's it's it's it's wild. Um. 08:02.91 Josh Um, you know we lived on such a big farm and I mean it was something like two hundred acres or something like that. Never found a single artifact but it was likely because I'd never thought hey I'll find some artifacts here. 08:09.51 David Howe But ah now you get. 08:18.11 Josh So you know looking back I'm thinking my God I was probably surrounded. 08:20.99 alifeinruins But I'm I'm glad you are another person who perpetuates the stereotypes of archaeologists and dinosaurs because I'm I'm also the same way like I was a I was a paleontologist first and then I adopted archaeology as a secondary career. 08:23.47 Josh Yeah. 08:37.25 David Howe Yeah, we kind of we all kind of get into that. Um, so yeah, like no I guess I eat it I I would I ask this like did you go to college First you joined the military first I can't remember. 08:38.20 Josh Um, you know as as much as I've learned differently about archeological ethics. It was in fact, Dr. Jones himself that that got me into archeology I thought I'm going to be punching naties and wooing women and finding treasure. But. No yeah, yeah, it's yeah. 08:59.41 David Howe Oh. 09:04.76 Josh Your favorite. Um I'm an outlier. My favorites temple go I Yeah always get people tell me, there's is either arc or um, crusade. But I like temple I think it's because it was the first one I saw yeah. 09:25.44 Josh Oh wow um, so I I definitely perpetuate the Dino stereotypes that we get as archeologists because I love dinosaurs I saw Jurassic Park when it came out in theaters I'm actually drinking water out of my um, what's the most recent one the Jurassic World 1 09:42.10 David Howe Ah, that's a Southern story. Ah. 09:44.11 alifeinruins I Do love that the gym was the the gateway drug. 09:44.36 Josh Well I'm drinking out of my commemorative cup and also have the commemorative popcorn bucket cause I went and saw it when it first came out. You know the first one and the last one. Um I think they did what they could with the latter ones but you know there's something about the first one that just seeing it when it first came out. It was pure magic. 09:47.91 David Howe Okay. 10:01.26 Josh So. 10:05.68 Josh 94 I believe yeah. 10:06.84 David Howe Home I could definitely see you being a bouncer because when I first met you I was definitely shocked at how just like large you are like like like in terms of height I should say like. 10:12.19 Josh Yeah I was I was in there watching it with my grandma and grandpa and I had to come out during the raptor scene but I bucked up and went back in and made it through. 10:24.56 David Howe Was like oh Wow Ah you could crush me I was like damn. 10:30.74 Josh That's a triceratops. Yeah sorry I didn't mean to do the stereotype again. But here. 10:34.15 David Howe Well yeah, you got the people can't see it right now but you got the the big long beard and then do you still have the like the the mohawk ponytail thing. 10:47.97 alifeinruins Ah, yeah, um, did did you initially go in for history anthropology something like that or did you. 10:48.36 Josh Yeah. 10:48.63 David Howe Now Yeah it I couldn't do it either? Ah, anyway, yeah, so yeah. 11:05.48 Josh Ah, yeah, that is. 11:11.53 Josh Yeah. 11:29.46 David Howe Ah. 11:38.75 Josh So there's a running joke in our department at Georgia Southern well it's not my department anymore. But there's a running joke in the anthro department that I've been there longer than most of the professors. Um one ah one of my mentors. Dr. Heidi Altman we often. 11:41.18 David Howe Ah, yeah, it's ah I didn't know it existed I think I knew like I'd heard of anthropology in terms of like evolution but I didn't think about it being like an archeology kind of thing you know? yeah. 11:52.84 alifeinruins Yeah, and I think it's like statewide sort United stateswide like it's not a top class or something. It's mentioned I mean you do your psychologylogies. You do even sociology probably in some locations but I don't our anthropology is like really drastically underrepresented in high school. 11:53.67 Josh Make the joke when we both first started there. We had brown hair and now we both have gray hair um up my mentor Dr Wood I've been there for about 6 years longer than him I started in 2006 straight out of high school. Um I was immediately introduced to the gym. And met a bunch of bouncers and they were like hey dude come bounce which led to free drinks at the bars which led to academic probation which led to having to stay out for 3 years to get on my grades reset which led to me being broke and saying you know what screw it I'll join the army they pay. So. 12:11.24 alifeinruins Kind of a wild. 12:21.99 David Howe Oh yeah, honestly, if they ah like made anthropology like a high school class. There would be no gop like that's ah, that's a firm belief of mine. 12:30.91 Josh It was definitely not out of yeah it is his very I love. Oh absolutely once I discovered that you can be a huge human I was like oh yeah and then you know you get the bars in Statesboro were such a cult. We were such all the bouncers and bartenders and servers were such a group of like. 12:38.12 David Howe That's why it's not a class. Yeah I shouldn't say G O P but you know like the the extremes of it. 12:41.37 alifeinruins Yeah I think that that the the there's certain aspects that wouldn't be around anymore. Yeah, when you're exposed to just like the diversity of humans. It's it's hard to be really racist and terrible to other people. 12:47.84 David Howe Right. 12:51.86 Josh There is 1 thing to do and 1 thing only and it's just get trashed so it definitely led to my academic downfall early on. 12:57.80 David Howe Yeah, um I guess debatably. But anyway so the army and you were what exactly did you do. 13:11.80 Josh That's what Nate all the time is like dude he's just a large human. so yeah I'm so I'm such a gentle giant but my face just makes me look like a axe murderer. 13:28.62 Josh No I went back. It was just the Georgia Summer I don't know how I thought I was gonna survive with that hair. Yeah. 13:31.39 David Howe Ah. 13:46.17 Josh I did not know what I did not know that anthropology led to archaeology. In fact I didn't even know anthropology existed. So for my first semester I was a history major and then I discovered hey Anthropology is where I need to be so I quickly switched over it's. 13:48.40 David Howe Type 2 fun huh that's I have've never heard that that's funny. Oh. 14:05.00 David Howe Yeah I like that. 14:05.61 Josh There's no like we we I did this letters to a pinpal thing. You know it pre pairs stem professionals with kids in underserved communities and just kind of talk to them and basically like hey you can do stem too and we got to talking about that me and Nate were trying to answer the question of like what was hard. 14:06.68 alifeinruins It's like the reminiscing about it is is the is the good part. Um, so you go go away. Do your six years and then you come back and decided that anthropology history was kind of what you wanted to continue to study. 14:22.15 Josh In your college career and I was like yeah I just had I didn't I had no direction I had no idea what anthropology was they don't prepare you for it in high school. They don't even tell you that it exists. 14:39.56 Josh Yeah, yeah. 14:50.77 Josh So but I. 14:54.74 David Howe Ah, yeah, ah yeah I'm there. So it's that I get it. Ah. 15:00.34 Josh Ah, they said when I when I was in ah eighth grade. We took Georgia history and I I can just answer your question here. It was called the war of northern aggression so that I was not getting any intro to anthropology in in my hometown. 15:00.40 alifeinruins That's what amazing. It's amazing with like a little hard labor and and like real world jobs will like put into you. 15:08.23 David Howe Yeah, so you got what was it like doing I mean obviously you just kind of explained to but like balancing both sounds like hell to me. 15:20.21 Josh Yeah I I agree I think it should be required. Yeah. Yeah. 15:41.88 Josh Yeah, other people. 15:54.98 Josh I was a 13 Bravo Canon Crew member um I didn't mean to be 1 We I went in with a buddy you know the the first of the one eighteenth it was in Savannah when I got into it. It's a kind of a famous guard unit Hickres housers. 15:55.75 David Howe Yeah. 16:05.23 David Howe The the the vcp. Yeah cool. How'd you find it by the way. 16:10.87 Josh I took the Asvab and then when I told them I wanted artillery they were like really because you don't have to be real smart. You just got to be strong and I should have said no not artillery. He was like you know't em I or something like that military intelligence but we went in artillery cause we had a bunch of friends in that unit. So. 16:23.91 David Howe Right. 16:28.88 Josh You know, whatever we'll get through these 6 years and be done. It was fun. It was type 2 fun I'll say that for sure it was fun later. It's fun after I was done with it. Yeah. 16:30.88 David Howe Yeah, it it definitely like as an anthropologist shocked me at that job. Not only like I mean veterans are just very hardworking and like drilled people but like just how like the armies like are the Navy Air Force 2 or marines are just like bye. 16:41.61 Josh Well I don it may it may be made up because Nate told me about it type one fun is apparently you have it, you're having fun while you're doing it but type 2 fun as you look back and you're like yeah that was fun. It was visual whiles doing it. But yeah, it's fun. Yeah yeah. 16:49.81 David Howe And then like they have no idea what to do and like yeah I was like Wow I never thought about that. 16:52.95 alifeinruins And yeah, the common I feel like my knowledge was that they would like treat you well and like get you situated into like Civilian life but it doesn't seem like that's something like that's ever done I mean shit. 17:07.67 Josh Ah, well so the good thing about the the army guard is you know you work a Civilian life and ah and a military life. So I was able to work Civilian jobs and without education. You know my grandpa was a big construction guy. So. 17:07.69 David Howe Yeah. 17:13.25 David Howe Yeah, and like some people get disability and stuff and then you get your I Do you get a pension or is that only if you're like a captain or something. Okay. 17:23.70 Josh Construction I did pipe fitting I you know I did farm work I did corrections. Um and I I just was like man this is miserable I have to buckle down and get this stuff done so I can be an archeologist you know I I don't want to be 1 of those guys that had big dreams and now I'm a Soundcloud rapper. 17:41.87 Josh So. 17:42.19 David Howe Gotcha Okay as I experienced. Ah, yeah. 17:44.41 Josh Next. 17:46.95 alifeinruins I think on that cheery note where we're gonna end this segment and we will be right back talking with Josh Heron 17:55.72 Josh Um, yeah, the world job. Yeah. 18:05.97 Josh It's one of the reasons that I am so passionate about the vcp is it was hell um, most guard units are pretty standard to two days ah a month two weeks during the summer the one eighteenth was not standard. The one eighteenth was all about training. They're a sister unit to the third id in Fort Stewart which has a ridiculous deployment rate. So it was more like three days a month sixty days during the summer so there's no way to balance the civilian life. Yeah legally civilian um employers have to keep your job and this and that. But we all know they can find a way to fire you so you know it's just how capitalism works. They'll find a way to fire you so that's that's one of the reasons I was like man this program's important I got to I got to be a part of it. Yeah yeah, the vcp. It was actually my mentor Dr Jared Wood at Georgia Southern was like man I think this is it's almost like this program was made for you to be a part of because you know veterans get a pretty crappy end of the stick and if I could combine archeology and my passion for helping other veterans like why? not. You're going to pay me to do that sweet. 19:28.90 Josh E. 19:37.89 Josh Oh yeah. 19:47.57 Josh Good, No no yeah, it's like hey you turn in all your gear. Okay, see you hope you don't die in the streets. That's it's pretty bad. 20:09.91 Josh It's only if you retire which is super hard in the guard because in the regular army you just do your twenty years but in the guard you have to do a certain number of years and milestones to equal up to a certain amount of points so it may be 23 24 years when you actually retire and even the end it's not like the v a is just terrible to deal with. So yeah.