00:00.00 alifeinruins Welcome to episode fuck you are. 00:00.68 David Howe Welcome back? ah. 00:08.17 alifeinruins Chris got that out. 00:09.90 David Howe Um, wow you got go for it nope and 3 2 00:13.48 alifeinruins No, you go you go I do it most the time. Nope That's all principle now. 00:23.00 David Howe Welcome to episode one fifty six of life newss podcast I am your host David Ian Howe and I'm joined by my co-host Conor John and Carlton Gober excuse me Carlton Dr. Carlton's shield chief Dr. gover is in um, you talked yet? oh. 00:34.80 alifeinruins I Don't think he's technically a doctor yet. 00:40.50 David Howe Ah, hang on. Oh that's a family guy quote that is definitely not age well backup backup backup chris Rachel I'm so sorry kick me off the network. Okay, 5 4 3 2 1 welcome to episode 156 of a live news podcast I'm your host David Ian Howe and I'm Juba my co-host Connor Cochrane johnnan um Carlton will not be joining us today. Dr Carlton Shield chief Dr Gover is in um the dominican republic. 01:20.50 alifeinruins Yeah. 01:20.70 David Howe Think on a field school um doing like underwater archeology something that he doesn't have really any experience in but 1 time um and he's teaching it now which is really cool. That's how archaeology works and um, yeah, he's staying at an all inclusive resort. Ah. 01:39.30 David Howe I guess for safety reasons looks awesome. Ah Carlton sent us a picture of that meeting all all inclusive breakfast this morning in the dominican republic and then he sent this picture of a giant bottle of tequila the day before. Um. And I got at least 6 to 7 memes are real sentiment Instagram from Carlton that same night. So we know what Carlton was doing um and then doing the next morning so he is in the dominican republic sink is looking for the nina or the Pinta the Santa Maria or something. 02:08.88 alifeinruins Were you're gonna say sinking ships. Okay, it's sinking underneath the search. Yeah, he's doing that. He's not a doctor yet and he's in in the process. Just ah as a there a heads up. But yeah, so. 02:11.85 David Howe Searching is what I might to say but um, but yes syncing shift. 02:23.15 David Howe Yeah, um. 02:25.57 David Howe Way to be a dick I No no know he's a professor at his school. So I just I just assume me doctor you know? yeah. 02:26.30 alifeinruins It's just me and David we actually I mean he would say the same thing he wouldn't want. He wouldn't he would. It's stolen valor. You know. 02:40.81 alifeinruins I'd call him doctor think that's fair, we're gonna try something wild and just spitball go from here see what? ah see what happens. 02:59.29 David Howe Yeah, um, for some reason I was almost gonna say let's take your questions off the live stream but we didn't set that up. Um, so um. 03:08.80 alifeinruins Ah, from Morgan Robbins we have why did you skip last week's nap in in Ohio or Indiana. 03:16.94 David Howe Oh um, I yeah I was going to go to a private nap in in um Indiana ah from a friend that was hosting 1 Um I was really sick did I got some allergies. Um and it was 4 hour drive away in my bus which is. 03:34.29 David Howe And my bus would equal out to a 6 hour drive there and back um a 6 hour there yeah so I was just like if I'm not feeling well I can't really like nap correctly anyway without just breaking rock because of my hands and then um. 03:38.20 alifeinruins Roughly $10000 with the gas right? ah. 03:49.78 David Howe And to go all the way out there literally just to drink while I'm sick and spend money on drinking and gas and I was like I'll just stay home. Um, unfortunately. 03:57.70 alifeinruins Just to clarify that isn't like a ah a gathering where you all sleep. It's where you flint nap Correct wait. What. 04:04.80 David Howe We do all sleep together not like in the same room I like you're camping. Um, but yeah, yeah, no, no, um in a healthy like modern you know secure sexuality way like like some guys bring their wives like. 04:19.20 alifeinruins Nice. 04:21.89 David Howe Um, taking this hole deeper. But um, yeah, some of them may gay I don't know they haven't told me I can't you know s stop that meant not for me to know I'm not tried that died not there but dead I. 04:35.18 alifeinruins Yeah, what good to good to know good to know? Um, ah what? So what is I What does that consist of like what do you guys? Do do you just hang out and fli nap or your is there like. 04:49.11 David Howe Yeah, so a napin is like it's kind of cool because it's a very like ancient thing I would imagine you meet up with people who are also good at napping um coach I mean that was just kind of survival every day back in the past. But. Um, what I like about napins is that like normally in an archeological setting I'm taught napping by a teacher um a professor in front of class and like you read about it in the book and you get into the weeds of like this is a teraryary flank with approximately 75% cornt tanks and winlong um and like or 17% cortex and then. Um, our primary flake because 75% cortex I guess but so here you go you get into the weeds footnapping is not that flinapping has taken a rock and directing the forest to the rock to make it like sharp rock make it pretty um and like you can learn all you want about like Hersey and cones and like. Fracturing and araular scars and stuff like that. None of that means anything like I don't remember any of that from lithicx unless I pull up my book. Um, like the way to nap is like to go learn from people who do it who don't know those terms because like people one hundred thousand years ago didn't know what a fucking herzey and cone is like they. Obviously saw that that effect when they were hitting it but they didn't like put too much thought into it. Don't think um because these people don't and like they're good at teaching it because they're like if you hit it here like look it'll feel like this and you'll know based on the sound and yada yada um and to answer your question. Oh sorry. 06:12.93 alifeinruins Yeah, because it's like those just say like it's coming from like because we come from like a theoretical perspective whereas they have been practicing and it's kind of more of an innate actually doing of the stuff which is something I Never really got good at I could tell you about huing cones and all that kind of stuff but I can. I couldn't make a biface. 06:33.87 David Howe Yeah, yeah, and I kind of like walk in this like 2 worlds right now because it's I'm a better flintnapper than most most archeologists I think that just like generally like understand like stone tools like I know there's a lot of archaeologists who are exceptional flintnappers for sure. I'm not one of them I know what I'm doing. But I'm not like great I'm not like an artist at it yet I would put it that way whereas like these people are straight up artists at their craft and like learning from them. It's like I'll never know I'll never be a perfect flintnapper like as good as they are I'll also never be like the best. Lithicist in the world. Ah, but I know both sides of things which gives me a better understanding of like the past I think a lot and the nap-ins. It's cool because you're you're getting. You're learning techniques from somebody. But because when you learn from a class like you just see a guy hit a copper bupper and hit a rock or a hammerstonea hit a rock. Is it. But like with these guys. It's like someone has a very different like 1 guy uses indirect percussion I learned from him and I got really good at footnapping when I learned that because it was just too much of a hurdle for me the other way. Um other guy only uses abbo like only uses rocks and antlers. Another guy's really good at the copper another guy has a diamond tipped. Copper or Diamondkipped Diamond tipped pressure flaker which makes beautiful flakes come off. Um, it's just like you learn from these different people and of course they all grew up on I wouldn't say their rednecks in any regard like it's just kind of the word I would I think most people would do but they're like country guys that grew up on walking. 08:08.88 David Howe Farm fields looking for arrowheads with their grandpa and like wondered how the indians made the arrowheads they found um and that is very common at all the napins I've been to and Nappers I've met they all didn't know it was a thing that you could do. They've picked up points and wondered how they made it. And started hitting them and they broke an arrowhead in half and were like oh it breaks like this. Let me try that again and then they started shaping it and then they got really into it and then learned its flinapping as a thing which I think is fascinating. Um. 08:38.26 alifeinruins That's that's super wild because that means that there's some like innate ability or innate understanding in our human biology and or cultural past that we have passed down to us that we can eventually figure it out I guess our brains are smart enough to realize hitting 2 rocks together. And breaking them at one point and ah ultimately like refining your technique is part of the human process. But if it does feel like there's something like innate in us. Um I don't know what would you would you say that or do you think it's like just go. 09:08.63 David Howe Yeah I yeah like I'm fidgeting with 1 right now like I just I like touching it and looking at it and the bumps that go over it and yeah, it's like. You can look at art and appreciate like the Mona Lisa like you can appreciate Van Gogh and be like oh wow, that's an artist made that because you've been told that's a famous artist but like um, that maybe that's not the best oil painting is like or watercolor is a very specific type of art form whereas like. Front-napping. It's a tool but like everyone needed to use it. But it now is like it takes a lot of art and skill to make them look good and like make them right and make them thin and make them functional and I think everyone appreciates even if you don't like arrowheads or like. You didn't collect them or you don't care too much for it. I always notice when people who don't fliapp look at flinappers. They're fascinated by it because it's like it's just something so foreign but it's cool. Yeah. 10:09.45 alifeinruins Yeah, and and and there's some sort of artistic expression for all the stuff in the past like you you can't assume that everything they're dealing is functional and I think you and Carlton kind of talked to a little bit about this and the style versus function debate where I think Carlton was eating food so we apologize for that. Um. 10:22.30 David Howe A. 10:25.70 alifeinruins It was all like but there is an artistic element to I think flinapping and projectile points I mean you don't you don't go through these kind of super intense expressions and variations on stuff just for for function I don't Believe. I Don't know if you do you feel differently about that. 10:47.21 David Howe Like the variations of like point styles. 10:51.16 alifeinruins Yeah, like that's not all functional point style. There's some artistic expression that occurs when creating a point. 11:01.41 David Howe Um, yeah I've also kind of like I didn't get to touch on this in the the style by function debate too. But like there's there's style and there's functions like this one I'm holding right here is sere to that one side and the other side. It's not.. It's just because I didn't finish it. Um. So like somebody might pick that up later and be like oh look at this style and like it's serrated than one side and sharp on the other kind of like a booie knife is Or're not booing knife those like survival knives have a solved light on their side. Um, and but some people like physics are not or hunting or not might think like oh this will be more effective and they just. 11:24.64 alifeinruins Yeah. 11:35.15 David Howe It's a psychosomatic thing like I notice I'm playing Jedi Survivor right now and like I'm like oh well like if I wear these commando pants like then I'm definitely like you know I'm more powerful but like it's just just a skin on the pants like like I climbed and like hiked and fought like 18 droids to get this little fucking chest upgrade. Or armor upgrade and like it doesn't do anything It's just the but the effort you put into it and I think a lot of flinapping is that too because a lot of people are just like this looks cool and like therefore it works better. You know I don't know what the word is for that. But we do let and know everything else like you got your lucky Sports Jersey um or like. 12:12.90 alifeinruins Oh what is I called? Yeah superstition. Yeah. 12:13.83 David Howe I Know like my neighbors grown up when the superstition right? like he would wear the same boxers and on a home Yankee game um like the same color he had to wear blue or something it was the opposite of whether the yankees home colors are yanes home colors are white away is gray. Yeah, so he had to wear. Sorry it was his gray ones he had to wear whenever they had a home game. Yeah, yeah, it was weird but like he the eies would win if he did that. Yeah. 12:36.61 alifeinruins So there is like so you think that is part of it is superstition and this looks cool and like human ingenuity too I mean we're just trying out different things and seeing what happens. 12:49.58 David Howe Yeah I mean like the base really is the most functional part like because how it attaches to the the um the shaft or the dart or whatever or the fore shaft. 13:00.66 alifeinruins Ah. 13:01.22 David Howe The antler that you're using it for a knife but the rest of it just has to be sharp like pretty much I mean the longer it is the deeper it penetrates I guess but that's not always the case too because you get very tiny ones. Um, that's kind of what my thesis is about but 1 13:12.80 alifeinruins Yeah, wrong, Um? Well I always thought it was interesting watching you for doing part of your thesis and the kind of how you attach the arrowhead to. 4 shaft and the dart. It's kind of a super intensive process. You know's There's a lot of getting glue getting literature or whatever you guys are using to tie it up is that a word. That's not a word isn't like Li Liga toture is that like when you. 13:44.50 David Howe What I thought you are trying to say literature now is like what are you talking like now. Ah I'm not sure but that that's word does sound familiar. 13:49.15 alifeinruins Ligaments and stuff. Yeah, you're taking Shakespeare and you know you cut it up in little pieces. Okay, um, likeage. Yeah, it's whatever ligaments etc. Ah to. 14:01.33 David Howe Like get your. 14:07.24 alifeinruins Ti it up. It's like a really intensive process but it it does It does an excellent job. Um I think most of your points didn't actually break completely off from the foreshaft right. 14:07.69 David Howe Yeah. 14:18.14 David Howe No, no, not all just the smallest ones broke pretty good. Um, and the the biggest ones kind of preserved preserved all right. 14:25.50 alifeinruins So the rock is like the the weak point or at least because it's taking the brunt of the impact. 14:31.81 David Howe That or I think the biggest ones just didn't penetrate well like that just the tips kind of stuck there. Um, yeah, that's probably the case. 14:39.73 alifeinruins Yeah, well if if you're interested in penetration studies make sure and read isn't pedigree coming out with something soon. Hopefully. 14:48.61 David Howe I Thought you were going to say so make a joke there. Um yes I think his comes out soon. 14:54.87 alifeinruins Jeff um. 14:56.84 David Howe Yeah, but I like apps because you you learn a lot from people you learn it like what their version of like you know it's all that they understand hers he and coness and they understand like. Like they know the history of it like I learned from this guy who learned from francois bordeaux or something like that and like they they can tell that stuff and they watch all the Youtube videos of like nappers and we all know like oh you've seen paleo man gym like the guy on Youtube and you're like oh he isn't posted like 8 years like what's up and like i' know hurt his wife died and like it' like. Little things like that. But we don't know that we're just making that up. Um or like it was just it's just a rumor. It's like when I was 6 but like everyone's like oh I learned under um just name ah like my friend Jake Webster learned from this guy. 15:45.36 alifeinruins Donald dust. 15:48.57 David Howe Donald dust no I mean I would say donny is my my main teacher. But what's the guy's name Ed Ed mosure and like he would say ed mosher over and over again as if I should know this like archaeological name as like Ed Mosher and he's just some dude that works in Indiana. That also just flit nas because he loved it as a kid and like I've never doesn't have any archeological workout or anything of just a flinapper and it's just one of those things where it's like it's kind like a piano teacher a guitar teacher like oh I worked under this guide. It's like okay I I know who that is but he's probably fucking. Great yeah, it's stuff like that. Yeah. 16:20.85 alifeinruins Like pedigree kind of stuff. Yeah. 16:25.56 David Howe And like the do can bust out a danish dagger in like 2 hours it's pretty crazy. Um and a danish dagger if you guys are listening look that up. It's probably if you can make that you're a flintnapper like you know what you're doing. They're very hard to make and it's a bronze age her copper age. 16:45.72 David Howe Copper or Bronze age um danish like knife that was made to look like a regular just like knife at the time but a danish dagger they made stone knives to replicate that and they're like. 16:51.84 alifeinruins Oh shit. 16:59.63 David Howe It's just prowess. There's no ro function to it. Yeah, they can stab things but like there's no need to make a knife out of stone that good when you could just make it a copper roar. Ah yeah and I watched the guy bust one out with a giant most billet and like 2 hours 17:05.39 alifeinruins Holy shit man. Oh. 17:11.90 alifeinruins I Mean the flaking on that stuff is just gorgeous and then like the variation in like oh my God Yeah and like the variation in like the thickness that you have from the handle to like the actual point itself is wild. 17:15.51 David Howe The stitching on the handle. Yeah. 17:26.20 David Howe Um, and like he prints out a paper cut out of what that should look like puts it over the rock and occasionally like puts it back over the rock to see like where he's at with it and then he makes it perfectly damn and he told me like. He picks up a rock this is Ed Mosher he picks up a rock and he knows like what he's making out of that like that's a clobu point. That's an archaic fluted that earn archaic notched. That's a turkey tale. He just knows like he sees it in there and he'll make it there I don't do that I just like I'm like oh maybe I'll shape it into something. Yeah, but he's like. 17:56.27 alifeinruins Oh that's wild. 18:01.10 David Howe Yeah, he's like get calls to me and I'll do it I'm like damn dude like a shit like that you don't learn an archeology class. Yeah. 18:06.89 alifeinruins No, not at all I mean you get what one one day of where you know Alex Cra Alex Craig will teach you that or Bob Kelly will teach you that it was like 1 1 simple day. Um, and you kind of hit some rocks together for like an hour. 18:11.41 David Howe That's if that yeah you don't learn from them. 18:21.55 alifeinruins And then we're supposed to understand our archeological record based on that. 18:22.83 David Howe Yeah, and it it and then I'll post about like how I'll identify sites based on flakes and stuff like that and I'll get archaeologists that messages me like well that's not like a tertiary flake is bayyner vaard bear I'm like I don't give a shit a tertiary flake. The smaller flake with less cortex on it that falls off when you're later stage reduction then you know early stage reduction and late stage reduction just put it on a spectrum. There's no need to make 3 specific little things and get into the weeds and be like fucking Damian I'd be like oh well, this one's with a look like it and I'm like no, you don't need to do that like just. 18:56.82 alifeinruins I think I think Damian's lost face faith in the debotage analysis though I think I think we've all lost faith on that note, we're going to end this segment and we'll be rebec. 18:59.90 David Howe Ah, good good. He should.