00:00.00 alifeinruins Welcome to episode one fifty five of of life and ruins podcast where you investigate the careers of those living a life in ruins I am your host Connor John and and I am unfortunately joined by my co-host David Howe um 00:11.14 David Howe Oh hi. 00:15.61 alifeinruins This week's episode. We are joined by Jacob Arnsen who is a good friend of the podcast gamer and also a recent graduate of the University Of Wyoming he's going to talk about his career in archeology and why he studies dragon glass jacob how are you doing on this lovely tuesday. 00:34.69 Jacob Arnzen I'm doing great um, just got back from work and was long trip through Portland traffic and ah but got through it and I'm doing okay. 00:44.53 David Howe Good I So want to start out by saying you are a um, you're a longtime listener of the podcast aren't you. 00:52.88 Jacob Arnzen So yeahp yeah I Pretty pretty much started listening to you guys well episode one So didn't yeah yeah, like well you guys So we haven started it I was ah still in. 00:59.79 David Howe Um, Wow really. 01:06.74 Jacob Arnzen I think I just started working for the forest service. Ah so yeah, it's it's kind of fun because I would download your guys's episodes and bring them out with me to the field and then during lunch break which is usually our 30 minute break for lunch I will turn it on this is have like some background noise. There are like just a listen. 01:07.17 David Howe Okay. 01:26.10 Jacob Arnzen But you guys have to say or who you what guest you had on and. 01:26.48 David Howe Yeah, yeah, no, it's good to know have ah have you rated and reviewed the podcast before okay, well then you pass the 5 check as's good man cool. That's ah, that's a warning to all the other guys you get to come on the show if you written no you actually I don't know. 01:32.30 Jacob Arnzen I Yes I have It's very important to do so okay. 01:44.72 alifeinruins Absolutely not um promises. Yeah I was gonna say thank you for listening those early episodes I know they're rough and a lot of giggling but you know we made it through. 01:45.31 David Howe I'm not allowed to make like ah whaty those what what is theyh deal absolutes there you go and let um Carlton's here anyway, yeah conor taken away. 02:01.75 alifeinruins And so you know if you are currently living in the Pacific Northwest is it is it Finally the the darkness is it gone yet or is it. 02:14.75 Jacob Arnzen Um, yeah I mean it's actually been gorgeous here for the past five days it's been great like we had an ° on Thursday I mean on Friday and then it was again 30 irty of 80 on Saturday and Sunday started cooling off and and. The last couple days have been pretty cool but partly cloudy but it's been still pretty warm and sunny and it's been great. We've we've had a pretty long winter out here too and so it's ah, kind of we had snow up in the foothills. Ah not too long ago. So it was kind of. Kind of a long winter. 02:48.77 alifeinruins Yeah, we're finally turning the corner up here too which is thank goodness. You know it's well. 02:56.29 Jacob Arnzen Ah, although winter in Wyoming is like till June so. 02:59.97 David Howe Yeah I had friends come visit me when I was there in may and like you know you start doing field work late may and they came out to visit I think it was may first and it had just dumped snow like a blizzard and they they. Or from Tennessee so they hadn't seen that much snow in their life and they're like whoa. 03:19.98 alifeinruins Hello welcome to cybermy. Yeah, exactly so you've spent your your whole life or most of your like so you grew up in Oregon was that and but not in the place that everyone kind of pictures. 03:20.50 Jacob Arnzen Should we go inside. 03:40.10 alifeinruins Organ as right The place you grew up in is a little different. 03:43.63 Jacob Arnzen Yeah, so most people when they come to Oregon they think of this almost like tempered rainforest very very lush and green very wet very gray gloomy um state but rit was a o v yeah. 03:53.57 David Howe Um I think of veganism I think of veganism and legalized crack. 03:58.81 alifeinruins And homeless people. 04:01.20 Jacob Arnzen Yeah, yeah, that's just that's just Portland um, ah just kidding Portland love you? Um, so it's ah but that's actually just like 1 thirdd of the state the other two-thirds is a lot of high desert environment climate and so. Um, the area that I grew up in was in the far northeastern corner of look of Oregon near the town called of grande and it's up in the mountains and it's in this nice Green Valley but it's not like green is like this area of the of the Wallma Valley and the coastal range of Oregon it still gets. Pretty dry and pretty hot out there. Um, and you know we're surrounded by a big ponderosa forests out there and we have big prairies of sagebrush and then also grass prairies for along the Columbia River but it's significantly drier. Ah know warmer in that in that part of Oregon and so it's like you get a lot of shades of green in in west in Western Oregon but you get onto eastern oron east of the cascades that you get a lot of shades of browns and yellows. 05:08.80 alifeinruins So yeah, it's kind of a wild once you like drive out of Portland going east you like follow the Columbia River and all that area which is absolutely gorgeous like anyone should do that drive. Um, beautiful. But then you really get this like. Quick transition to like oh shit I'm in the desert. 05:26.18 Jacob Arnzen Yeah, it does change really rapidly as soon as you get past like especially the the hood River and and when you get to the dows. 05:36.70 alifeinruins Yeah, yeah, it's ah it's an absolutely beautiful area. Um, and I I drove through Larand and baker city the metropolises that they are and ah now it was. It was is beautiful country out there reminds me of bits and pieces of like Montana and Colorado was kind. Kind of those those intermountain valleys and whatnot. But I well when I was driving through there I also thought this has got to be a great place for people to live like historically prehistorically like it just seems like a great place to settle down. 06:09.97 Jacob Arnzen Yeah, absolutely so Eastern Oregon has a very ah, very extensive, archeological and historical record. Um, you know some of the oldest sites in Oregon are located in Eastern Oregon Paisley caves calmly caves rim rock draw ah and these are really old paleo indian sites and so having them um meetings in Oregon means that this place was pretty special for people even for that that long ago. Um, and ah, you know in this area has been continuously used. Even from that time all the way to historical period and you know this is like the first some of the first locations where pioneers would have came to an organ. Um and now I can't hear you guys. Oh. 07:02.16 David Howe Oh no, no we here I just had to tear my camera out for a second. Um yeah, um, hang on back it up. Um, yeah, so it seems like it's a pretty you know grapeless live like you were saying prehistorically and obviously clovis comes through there maybe something before clovis but um. 07:06.63 Jacob Arnzen Okay. 07:17.53 Jacob Arnzen Are. 07:20.80 David Howe Can you tell us why and like growing up in New York like when I thought it was Oregon and 2 like we played Oregon trail on the computer and like why was Oregon like this bastion of like you know why is there a trail that goes through there as opposed to California you know. 07:34.78 Jacob Arnzen Um, um so. 07:40.90 David Howe Um, Washington. 07:42.25 Jacob Arnzen Right? What there's actually the California trial which was part of colonization of of California by americans but like the most famously known Oregon Trail is actually just like it's multiple trials a system of trails that all lead to Oregon um. 07:48.80 David Howe Ah, like the. 07:58.37 Jacob Arnzen But ah, the reason for like this push for to move to Oregon was kind of like was to to outcompete the british because the british were also moving in the hudson bay company had a big part to play in Oregon history even wait like just right after Lu and Clark came through um in 18 oh 2 to 184 ah, the Hudson Bay Company right away came in and you're like oh there's a bunch of furs out here. So they started establishing ah quite a bit of a presence out here in then the ah you know the american government was like oh we we need to have an american establishment in the western coast. So ah. By promoting. Ah the Lang Grant act which was allowed for american citizens to acquire one hundred and sixty acres of real estate in in west non unsettled in unsettled areas. So um, and granted this this is all lands that were taken from. Local indigenous groups. So Nonsett is like yeah so what? I mean by nonsettled is nonsettled by white folks. But um, and so you know it was very tantalizing for a lot of americans who were struggling to make established farms in in parts of. 08:56.65 David Howe Yeah. 08:56.79 alifeinruins Yeah, non non settled is ah. 09:14.26 Jacob Arnzen East because it was getting kind of crowded out there. So ah, it was quite tantalizing to get free one hundred and sixty hundred and sixty acres of ah of real estate in this this barely publicized primo farmland in in this new land and this new organ organ country. So um, so and it really kicked off um in eighteen forty in the 1840 S Oron Trailll and thousands tens of thousands of immigrants made that crossing to Oregon and when they first got here though? Oh go ahead. 09:46.64 David Howe Is there a lot of hope. Um, no, you continue just say from when they first got here, go. 09:52.84 Jacob Arnzen Oh yeah, so when they first got here though they were a lot of them were quite surprised to to realize that there was already a bunch of white settlers already here a lot of them were scottish irish and french canadian and french canadian fur trappers that were employ by the Hudson Bay company and ah, but when they retired ah the Hudson Bay Company kind of promoted that they should stay here and ah farm the ground and you know grow crops local crops here so they can give it ah sell it to the Hudson Bay Company and the Hudson Bay Company could sell it to their fur trappers for ah. You know make bread and stuff for them. A lot of hardtack. Um. 10:32.50 David Howe Yeah I know in Wyoming when I worked on Oregon Trail sites like there's a lot of like graves and like obviously children size some of them adult size. Um, in Oregon do you see a lot of graves. And do they mark and denote that they died of dysentery. 10:51.55 Jacob Arnzen Ah, ah, no, not really um I don't think there's like a like a significant amount of graves that we find. Um, yeah, so yeah, it's not an ah well, there's is an option on the site forms for graves but like doesn't specify what kind of graves. 10:59.58 David Howe Um, it's not an option on the site form. Yeah. 11:08.77 David Howe Um, because I'm sure Conor could run a model on gis that like filters out which ones were dysentery and which ones were wolves. 11:08.97 Jacob Arnzen Um, ah well I mean through my career of working in in Oregon I've only found what not even found them. It's only been there were already recorded a lot of these were already known grave sites for. 11:12.70 alifeinruins Yeah, yeah, yeah. 11:28.83 Jacob Arnzen Pioneer Journals because they usually kept pretty good records of like who was on there who and then who died and and you know we cross-referenced it with a lot of diaries and journals from all these pioneers. Ah but like. 11:33.78 David Howe Who had diarrhea. 11:42.76 Jacob Arnzen I Mean maybe they might have mentioned in the journals that they died of dysentery but it's not going to say that on their headstones and a lot of these headstones are just made are made from. 11:48.25 David Howe You can't spell diarrhea without diary. So. 11:52.95 alifeinruins Well and a lot of people can't spell dysentery during that time. So. 11:55.43 Jacob Arnzen Right? Yeah, and yeah, like a lot of these headstones are made from wood so they're not going to survive the art the the element. So. 11:58.59 David Howe What entire nation. Sure Yeah, all right? So sorry to do really there. 12:06.34 alifeinruins Yeah, it's an extra. It's too much characters in the in the in the space. You know they hit their character limit real real well quickly. 12:10.63 Jacob Arnzen That yeah. 12:16.22 David Howe Ah, in in that area obviously and you and you specialized in an Obsidian which is volcanic class or um. 12:26.76 Jacob Arnzen Um. 12:27.71 David Howe Dragon glass it. Ah yeah, like the the native groups use that or the indigenous groups they like utilized it pretty well because it's pretty common but before you we dive into that could you tell us like before obviously the eu americans got there. Um, and I guess Lewis and Clark can can talk about that first I guess and then I wanted to know what? um tribes lived there, you know like who was there when they go there hass a loaded question. Sorry yeah. 12:50.89 Jacob Arnzen Um, yeah I mean you're basically asking me about all the tribes that that lived in Oregon and the answer is is. There's a lot and variety of ah different distinctive groups but like the area that I'm currently working in which is. Primarily along theamment valley which is like that the big lost Green Valley you see if you look at a map of Oregon um, there was primarily a group called the kaalappua tribes and they made up of different ah different bands of people. There was like the tulama I mean yeah, not the toma thewalatin. 13:28.97 Jacob Arnzen The Yamhill um the mohawk and that's just the name of few but there's several group ah band bands that made up this group of calappua. Um, yeah, and so and and then you go further into the coast range and it just. 13:36.63 David Howe Okay, yeah. 13:44.40 Jacob Arnzen The amount of groups that lived on Laroche Coast range is definitely. There's a large number of groups. 13:49.26 David Howe Yeah. 13:51.14 alifeinruins Yeah, it's like staggering if you look at like an intro textbook. It's insanely dense but it seems like that because it could support that um you know lots of focus on Rivers Salmon different resources obviously made that place great to live in the rain made you sad, but it'll. You know you get through it. 14:10.30 Jacob Arnzen Produces a lot of ah vegetation and and you know and was sought out for by like a lot of ah you know herbivores like deer and eloak and um and you were saying too like the Rivers produced a lot of. Fish especially salmon runs um like causs was a big big intensified geophyte out in the vilyment valley. 14:39.31 alifeinruins Yeah, um, was all this taught like in your school growing up. Were you given like organ history and prehistory. 14:48.73 Jacob Arnzen Um, yeah, so um, so when I first got to call it. Oh you mean talking about like high school. Oh yeah, yeah I mean when we were in elementary school. They they really kind of. 14:56.31 alifeinruins I mean like even like high school um elementary school I mean is it is it something that they focus on. 15:05.93 Jacob Arnzen Introduced us to to Oregon history and I remember fondly when I was in elementary school like fourth or sixth grade. We would ah we had these field trips that we'd go to to Fort Walla Walla which was the local historical museum in my near my elementary school and. It was ah first a ah fur trapping outpost and then it became like this trading fort for pioneers when they first got to into the oron country. Um, and then it became a civil war era for was it had ah a deep. Ah, detachment of union troops there during civil war and then it during world war one. It became a war one outpost. 15:46.32 David Howe Why Why is that like in in case, the war went out there. They just stationed troops there or like why? Yeah yeah. 15:54.54 Jacob Arnzen Yeah, yeah, it was ah yeah, it was because if if ah if Oregon the citizens of Oregon actually became southern sympathizers that it was the union troopss are there to quell any unrest. Ah, there was a few occasions of unrest, but it wasn't like no yeah. 16:00.68 David Howe Oh. 16:10.76 David Howe Ah, yeah, yeah, like what. 16:11.10 alifeinruins Yeah, those happen like what like a hundred and fifty years later yeah sorry to interrupt you. 16:11.73 Jacob Arnzen Ah, there was and wall fort right? Yeah you talking? yeah and the maui refuge. Ah ah, um, and Fort Walla Wallow wasn't the only fort that was had unionden troops stationed there. There was numerous forts along the Vaamette Valley 16:15.56 David Howe Yeah, Portland's just on fire. 16:31.34 Jacob Arnzen That were first built to to ah to guard the the indian reservations that were being established out there like fort hoskins fort yamhill and fort umqua these are 3 major forts that were there but then became pretty stigisticically important during. The civil war they housed a lot of union volunteers and Union Union Deach Infantry detachments um protecting union interests there in Oregon. 16:58.83 David Howe Um, and um I I think I kind of touched on this before but Lewis and Clark I know when they went through with Chicago way they found like Oregon and they they built a little fort there on the coast which one was that. 17:10.27 Jacob Arnzen Um, that was fort klaps it and it's technically on it's on the Washington side of Thelumbia River like right out pretty much at the mouth of the Columbia River is where they spent their winter of 18 oh 3 I believe. Um, and when they were the first euroamericans to complain about the wet weather in my book. There's a lot of general entries of them complaining complaining about how wet it is um because when winterre here on the western side of Oregon is is. It's very wet. We get a lot of moisture and we don't get it technically in snow we get it in rain and so the fort was built. Yeah in 183 and then they abandoned it after after the winter of 183 and then spring of eighteen four they made their way back up the Columbia River and the fort was was abandoned and there was no other occupants of it and I guess technically we still haven't found the complete. We haven't found the ah the the footprint archeologically of fort claset. But we know the general area of its at and there's actually really good. Um. National park or state park there I think it's a national park. 18:28.87 alifeinruins Well since you just triggered my ptsd for the the winters and in Washington I think we're gonna end this segment. Um, we'll be right back with episode one fifty five of life and ruins podcast with Jacob Barnesson