00:01.41 David Howe Carlton loves it I oh no, you froze recording how you can say new recording ah 1 or 2 00:04.71 alifeinruins Um, welcome to episode one I wanted to catch all of that welcome to episode one fifty one of a life runs podcast rein investigatsige the careers and research of those living life in ruins. I'm rohose Carlton go and I am joined by my co-host Connor John and David Howe well everyone I'm about to go on a trip to the dominican republic to do some underwater archeology and we're going to learn about the process of ah doing doing archaeology but under the sea. Ah, so hit the decks as we were hitting underwater archeology with a broad can and fire that's good. Connor I like that that was good. So so caveat I've only dipped my toes into this world I've completed the course I'm all certified now now I just got to get in get in the water and actually look at some real shit in the ocean. 00:41.72 connor Yeah, good you know I could do some stuff sometimes here. 00:52.52 connor You're a faker. 00:58.80 alifeinruins Because I've done it in the pool about ten feet deep map some things and let me tell you? Ah I think the hardest part about underwater archeology is being scuba certified. 01:09.26 David Howe What does scuba stand for Carlton I've never known yes also my by the way my wavelengths aren't working. Are you guys working? Okay cool am I just flat. 01:12.64 alifeinruins What the acronym scuba. 01:19.90 alifeinruins Yeah, you're working you're doing just fine. But so Scuba is an acronym that stands for self-contained underwater breathing Apparatus Yes, yeah, patty certified. 01:19.78 connor It looks It looks fun. 01:28.90 David Howe To to look that up. Are you certified. 01:33.41 connor I Think your car just revoked. 01:37.91 alifeinruins Patty Certified ten year olds can pass the patty exam. It's not super difficult and like to calculate all of the um you know depth tables all you have to do is p one times. Ah v one equals p two times v 2 01:53.60 connor Is that pressure and pressure and volume. So okay, increasing volume increasing pressure. 01:55.90 alifeinruins Volume. 02:00.00 David Howe Has too much math I would suffocate. 02:02.32 alifeinruins Yeah, it's it's pretty easy and everyone has dive computers anyways. So but um I got involved in this I don't think we've mentioned it much on the podcast but indiana university has a top ranks underwater archeology program. For whatever reason. Um Indiana is not landlocked. It does share a little bit of the great lakes and so the program here not only works on the great lakes itself but they have a very large ongoing project with other departments in the caribbean. 02:35.22 alifeinruins So Florida dominican republic are the are the big 2 that they that they do and once I found out about the program I just kind of swung by and they were in need of a ah professor to sign off on things and be a part of the project and so. Their attitude was it's much easier to make an archeologist into a scuba diver than a scuba divver into an archeologist. 03:01.46 connor Um, and and that program isn't directly a part of the anthropology program correct. 03:06.45 alifeinruins It's it's super weird. So there are anthropology undergraduates in there and so at here at iu you have to minor in something. So if you want to be an underwater archeologist. They either double major or they minor in underwater arc. But if you get in good with the program director Charles Beaker um it kind of. 03:36.90 alifeinruins Once you're like part of his little crew. He like goes above and beyond for his students. So like many of the undergraduates. Not only get chances at doing research making publications. But if they're scuba certified like a lot of them have their master diver certifications and so like as undergrads they're teaching underwater. 03:49.87 connor Well correct. 03:55.20 alifeinruins Courses on scuba diving through patty. So like it's kind of a very interesting system where those kids basically begin to run the underwater science program even as undergraduates and as masters and ph d students. They even go further so he's created like quite this system in which she trains these students up. Um, and gets them not only the dives in but the publication credentials like he has a lab meeting like every Tuesday for like 2 hours and he sits there and like you guys are gonna work on this abstract you guys are gonna work on this grant and it gets them hands on experience in professionalism. 04:33.15 connor That's kind of wildly they come out with like ah, an actual professional certification because I mean you can like as as we do an archeology you get you do a field school and you can kind of be seen as like I can do field tech stuff but you don't really get like a cert like this. Yeah. 04:46.00 David Howe Cert? yeah. 04:48.73 alifeinruins So yeah, and they develop their own. Um, there's only a couple of these in the world or in the country a scientific diver certificate and that's what I'm working on so you get. Credited as a scientific diver to do this stuff. So like all my poolwork and then my dives this coming weekend and then the field project that I'm going on in may which I'll be down there for three weeks all those groups towards my certifications and then as I'm like diving more and more um since all of the students including some that I'm on like committees for like. Some of these students that like are teaching me are my students. Um, since they're all certified I can get my advanced certification through them as we as we work. 05:28.37 David Howe Are you familiar with the Kelpiway hypothesis. Yeah, are you familiar with the fact that a lot of Paleoian sites may be submerged off the coasts are you aware. 05:30.86 alifeinruins Yeah, yes, David I am. 05:35.70 connor Nope tell me. 05:40.44 alifeinruins Yeah I've thought about that quite heavily and so. 05:47.30 David Howe That you have a ph d and you're an indigenous archeologist and you're going about to have a scuba certification and are you aware that you've actively said that I don't want to do paleo when in archeology. You know what? you're lined up to do Carlton prove us all wrong. 05:59.19 alifeinruins This is. 06:03.22 connor Ah, yeah, you're on a goddamn crash course. 06:04.89 David Howe Go do it next. 06:07.75 alifeinruins Well well the whole the whole impetus for this is like I want to go and dive reservoirs in Nebraska and Kansas that were dammed up in the 30 s and during those site surveys back with um in the thirty s they might have. Many of times only excavated like 1 or 2 hamlets and there's like a whole valley of archeology and for me, it's a question of not only being able to get in there and see what's going on but also to see the taphnomic processes that have taken place now that those sites are submerged and since they're submerged. They haven't been affected like any of the other ones that are now farmed up. So like that's kind of my impetus and how I got into this is like they're teaching me so then I can go and take some of these students with me and go do these dives in Nebraska and Kansas like the next step though is I have to get cold water certified which we're doing in a couple weeks. Um. 06:55.84 David Howe Deep. 06:58.20 alifeinruins Because the best time to dive in Nepbraska and Kansas where there's like more visibility than like three inches is like January and also there's less you know like harmful chemicals and manure in the water. So but I have thought about David. Ah. 07:04.00 connor Oh. 07:13.00 David Howe Ah. 07:17.89 alifeinruins Doing some underwater arc in Southeast Alaska or Northwest Coast have like googled it a little bit people do do it. It's just really inhospitable like it's not a fun if we want to go get that mammoth that that chesapeake mammoth and mastodon that's highly protected. Ah no I've thought about it. It would be. It's a. 07:24.82 David Howe Why not the Chesapeake Bay but 07:37.64 alifeinruins Great toolbot tool ah tool for my toolbox and it's just fun and I told Connor and David you if you guys get certified. There's no reason why I can't just like take you because as we talk about later. There's not much. Ah. 07:39.51 connor Yeah, but it. 07:55.67 alifeinruins Precision excavation that happens in Underwater archaeology a lot of notes. A lot of measurements. Um, and prior research especially like all the Caribbean stuff is historical archeology right? like they're as we'll talk about in a bit looking at shipwrecks. So there's a lot of. 07:59.74 David Howe Um, just photos and notes. 08:15.24 alifeinruins Preemptive research I'm trying to figure out where some of these things went down. Um, but since you can do photogrammetry just by swimming that's kind of the main imputtus is doing like 3 d models of these sites mapping the art objects before pulling them out. 08:30.15 David Howe That's pretty cool. 08:33.89 connor Okay, question. Um I Guess how does one do photogrammetry. Are you do you have a camera on you and you stop and take pictures periodically or how or is it automatically taking pictures How how does that work. 08:45.40 alifeinruins So you take it take a you take a you take a go pro and you like bake a rig for it and you set the go pro to take a photo every 3 seconds and you just like swim at the same rate at the same level and you just do transects and. 08:45.70 David Howe Are you a Chinese Spy Balloon underwater. 08:59.77 connor You just do that. You're the drone in the water there. 09:03.86 alifeinruins You're you're the drone in the water. That's it someone someone at the Sh is when I was with Charlie was asking have you ever thought about doing drones. He's like why when I have students who can swim. It's like why would I spend this much money to do that that let cost battery when I can just have students go do it. So. 09:24.66 connor Are there any issues with like refraction and shit like that or is there like an an adjustment that could be made um because like I mean airs it. Yeah. 09:31.94 David Howe Purey Underwater it can be an issue right. 09:33.11 alifeinruins Yeah, already underwater so there's no real refraction but there is um, depending on the lens like if you get 1 of those fish eye lenses that are too wide. Yeah, there'd be an issue but it's like you're still the kind of the same photogrammetry method where you need at least 60% overlap between photos to stitch that bitch back together. 09:47.72 connor Okay, gotcha. 09:52.58 David Howe Um, what about sharks. 09:55.32 alifeinruins Not where I'm going that was ah question number one when I asked but in the southeast part of Dominican Republic well yeah not Nebraska but Nebraska does pose its own risks not in the winter though but Kansas and Nebraska those reservoirs are known for rattlesnakes. 09:58.89 David Howe Oh I guess the end not Nebraska yeah. 10:10.50 David Howe Oh I have a story about that but not for this time. 10:11.93 alifeinruins Um, yep, and so um, but there is ah hazardous marine life in the area mostly in the you know like urchins and things that sting you those 2 lots of crap people. 10:27.24 David Howe Crab people. 10:31.62 connor Yeah I was just like kids I was gonna say a be can't see it. 10:32.60 David Howe Clam has been. 10:35.44 alifeinruins The Cla The Clamsman that is a reference to see a thieves and a particular enemy type that we have dubbed the clamsman because they're walking clams. Ah so it's like the work that I've done by work I mean Class. There's a lot of preparatory reading. Is a lot of relative chronologies of different technologies on Board ships. So like the styles of cannons going from Wrot Iron to cast iron how those evolved over time in which like where do you put the wheels and where does it sit on the ship that also goes with cannonballs Rotard cannonballs were made out of pecked Granite. So They basically. 11:03.51 David Howe Ah. 11:12.53 alifeinruins Fired stone balls and once the cast iron process was created then you can make cast iron iron Balls ship masts and then anchors are another big indicator so anchors change over time. So there's a lot of relative chronology work to help ah identify. Um. 11:22.69 David Howe You know. 11:31.60 alifeinruins Ships in the water. So like Christopher columbus's ships which were on caravels those all had wrought iron. But after the caravels once you actually get into like galleons, frigates sloops and brigs those all have cast iron and then being able to like track the relative age of a ship is based on d um. Anchor because many of times especially in the Mediterranean or not the mediterranean sorry the caribbean most of the wood has deteriorated so you got to look for those metal artifacts. 11:58.57 connor And it's It's the same thing as I project up points and other technologies. It goes in and changes through the times pretty consistently. Okay. 12:06.15 alifeinruins Absolutely. 12:08.16 David Howe Yeah, and we Len just historic arc too in my undergrad like you can definitely in like New England You can date old buildings just based on how the bricks are laid I Never like thought about that being a thing but I imagine something just as simple would apply to ships like that and that. Makes sense like dating the anchors and things because sure that tech change did caravels even have anchors at that point feel like anchors are a pretty recent thing. Okay, okay. 12:31.77 alifeinruins They did Caravels had had anchors. Yeah, there was some pretty rudiment entry anchors that um they had I think they sat outside the ship but I'd have to double check to be honest, Caravels are really interesting because they're basically just like wooden bathtubs the way they sat in the water. 12:47.97 David Howe With like a ah Latin sale and that's it. 12:48.15 alifeinruins Like had really wide holes and that they really really bowed at the both ends. 12:53.71 David Howe And yeah, could you imagine making what was it six months across the atlantic in that like you're basically at a longboat like it's not that it's a lot. 13:01.10 connor In a bathtub. Yeah, what. 13:06.31 alifeinruins Yeah, but they were like bathtub shape that of shallow draft keel that like a highfoecastle and a high Stern castle so they basically just look like bananas in the water like just tubby bananas. 13:21.73 connor It's so amazing. Yeah, that people can actually could actually do that because that's not the easiest of sailing I mean it's not the hardest of sailing to do that that route. But it's. 13:29.16 David Howe No. 13:30.16 alifeinruins They just sat high on the water. They basically just like made whatever will float. They hadn't figured out that like later ships like galleons and frigates and stuff they sat lower in the water you know because like the the footocks of the ship towards the bottom. But be extended so you kind of have the ship round out almost like a figure 8 and then come back up. 13:53.69 David Howe Ah. 13:55.13 alifeinruins Yeah. 13:55.36 connor Um, got question so you find a shipwreck How how do you begin? the process of mapping and documentation did they walk you through that whole process or just kind of. 14:04.56 alifeinruins So Walking through is would be a very polite way of describing the process in which they like taught us how to do this So I'm in this underwater archaeology class. It is an undergraduate like undergraduate level course I am the only archeologist in this course. Everyone else comes from like a different science and like most these kids already have that are like these are like the kids are professional Scuba divers all of them like this is what they do. They do the kinesiology they do underwater science they're geologists or whatever and um, but it would start off where just be like all right we have they would go to the pool there'd be artifacts in the water. And they like okay we need you to map them and it was basically kind of like a trial by error where you have to go in try to coordinate with your team and that was the hardest part for me where it was like I know how to do this shit. But then when you're underwater, you can't talk to anybody. So Then you're trying to explain to your crew like your teammates of like. What you're trying to do. You're like trying to point at shit like taking the tape out of their hands and then um, what kept fucking me up was I'm used to taking depth measurements but we had to do like it from the surface and mind you like this is water. So The tape is not straight. Like all of the measurements you're doing are approximate that tape is not getting straight no matter how you want to do that right? and then like sometimes your compass won't work underwater so you have you're also trying to get like orientations of objects as best you can doing rough sketches and mind you like you have. 15:36.30 alifeinruins You know, underwater a clipboard but you only get 1 page of that. So as you're trying to write and type notes and also trying to communicate with your team through that that clipboard gets filled very quickly and then if you haven't done your vocabulary and you're like staring at something and like there was a time where we didn't know what an object was. And we're trying to figure it out because like none of us had done the reading or done the flash guards. So there's like this. That's the difficult part of doing this of of the science and to me is like I can map I can measure I can do the orientations and the inclinations. It's the communication part so there is like a lot of prep work. But. Before it whereas like we've all done terrestrial archeology. We're used to like Bob or taught or someone or like hey do it this way and then correction fixed whereas underwater if you can get the communication across. You're you're wasting time right? because you only have like two and a half 3 hours of air and then you're got to go up and you're done for the day. So like these site surveys and like excavation. You're only down there for like couple hours and then by that time you're exhausted because you're fighting the current you're swimming like it's a full body or deal. 16:49.20 David Howe Yeah, damn. 16:50.10 connor Um, that's that's wild is it like a lot of hand signals and like you know, pointing at stuff or is there like a method of communication that they've like kind of established or. 16:57.95 alifeinruins So there is like the patty and like underwater signals but those are 2 handed so when you're doing underwater research your one of your hands is like pretty much always full. So we've had to adapt to try to use 1 hands like doing numbers. Um. Has been difficult. It's not super difficult. You got 5 but then you rotate your hand like this and that's six seven so if you're trying to get like pressure and air gauges. You have to like like I have you know 2 1 9 or something of air left. Or it basically be 2900 and that's you know that's been the most difficult part I mean shark is still fucking easy for everybody but like the one that I've struggled with is like when people ask me if I'm okay like I want to do thumbs up but thumbs up means like go to the surface I have to be like that and then like no no no no okay, okay okay like so there's just like goofy stuff like that. But in terms of like how do you know sign for different objects in the water that are there's not just like basic communication. That's gonna keep you alive. 18:05.88 David Howe I've found deloons in the forward Stern. It's just this time. Um. 18:13.24 alifeinruins But like the projects that we we do. It's not just archeology like it's a whole underwater Science field school so we bring in archeologists geologists and marine scientists which we can get on into the next segment. 18:14.10 connor Ah, let's fucking meddle. 18:29.15 alifeinruins So we'll be right back with episode one fifty one 18:30.76 connor 1 51 rom Mallon Purple juice Malibu Curibbu 18:32.16 David Howe We back with the bends. 18:36.61 alifeinruins Hopefully no bounce.