00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome back to the Crem Archeology podcast episode 257 and at the end of the last segment Doug was asking a question you know about basically making friends at at work and and what happens kind of when it goes wrong to summarize right? when when that friend has a. Has an issue or something you know gets fired whatever you know? How do you How do you kind of deal with that and I can tell you 2 circumstances I can think of well really three? Ah 1 there was you know obviously people dating that is like obviously a little more advanced form of friendship but that does happen on projects. You know when they they get to know each other and then they start dating and. I remember 2 people just got into a massive fight at a project hotel and one of them just basically walked off the job which is going to happen and ah and they took off so that was definitely a ramification of letting that friendship. Get obviously into that mode and then having it not work out and that's ah, that's a risk that you take there. But. Also in response to say relationships I have seen I saw a couple get divorced over this because one of the employees actually quit over just being frustrated. They were both working at the same company and the other employee did not quit and just kept working there and it was like. I'm not that you have to quit in solidarity but they kept working in the same situation and then in fact, ended up working there for a while and they ended up getting divorced and I have no idea no doubt that it was more than likely in response to just that difference of opinion like how can you still keep working there for those people that kind of thing and and then my own example is. 01:28.67 Heather So somebody's got to make a paycheck. You're both gonna quit. 01:32.48 Andrew Yeah, it's like grow up. Yeah. 01:32.93 archpodnet Well, ah my yeah, but like I said though, my own example, this is before Rachel and I were even married I like rage quit during my 1 year review and told my boss to f off like during the review. So that was pretty much the end of my employment at a company in South Carolina and Rachel heard this from down the hall she was working in the lab at her computer and essentially shut her computer down and walked out with me and we both just that's what basically kicked off our. 02:01.38 Heather Oh. 02:04.66 archpodnet Dragging our feet on this but that's what basically kick off our shovel bumming across the United States from South Carolina to the west where we really wanted to be. We were just dragging our feets on leaving that position or dragging our feet on leaving that position and um, we just yeah, we were like we don't want want to work anyway. 02:06.69 Bill Oh. 02:08.44 Heather Wow. 02:16.40 Andrew So. 02:18.38 Bill Well, there's it like yeah I mean I have um have a million questions about that one too. But I don't want to because the question is what was she ready to really shovel bomb and live out of a car I mean was she really ready was you know. 02:28.22 archpodnet Yeah, we both hated working in the Southeast We both hated it. It was no she loves she loves security. She loves the goods. She loves to secure paycheck and she will She will sit through a poor situation longer than I will but a lot of people are in that boat right? They just they just like. 02:34.36 Bill Ah. 02:46.20 archpodnet Man I've got a salaried job. This is good I Hate the people I work with and my boss is a dick but I have a paycheck and a lot of people get stuck into that situation and they just they just won't take the risk to move on. Well that's not me I will take that risk I will live in the car and we weren't married at the time she could have easily said hey I'm staying here I'm like. 02:57.10 Bill Yeah, well. 02:59.80 Andrew Yeah, yeah. 03:05.69 archpodnet Okay, well I guess we'll work this out but she quit with me and we put all our we've sold both of our cars rented ah and or leased a Toyota for runner because it was bigger than the 2 smaller cars that we had put all of our stuff in there and basically started shovel blowing across the country for 2 years until we made it to Nevada so that was. 03:06.41 Andrew Come again. 03:21.30 Bill Now that? Yeah yeah. 03:21.70 Andrew Chris Chris you have to just Chris you just have to own that you actually had a Jerry Maguire moment like that's amazing. You own that congratulations my friend. Yeah. 03:24.62 archpodnet The start of our story. 03:31.86 Heather And I'm jealous I'm jealous. Yeah. 03:32.47 Bill I Yeah, there's nothing better than those moments I Love those moments. But yeah, yeah, no I mean ah we going back going back to the question about um, you know folks that you like that you're friends with leaving the company or whatever. 03:34.92 archpodnet Ah, right right? Ah yeah, indeed indeed it was something. 03:48.82 Bill Um, that that scenario is the number. 1 reason why I haven't had those kind of relationships especially with supervisors that crm companies because it's really common for you to you know like someone or to see what happened to them as unfair when looking at it from the company. Perspective they might have had rules. They might have done something wrong. They might have actually cost the company. A lot of money or done something super dangerous and they're getting fired is protecting your job because then this person who's a liability is no longer causing problems but because you like that person. All you see is the supervisors. You know, taking action against your colleague that is the number 1 reason why I don't ever remember. There's a couple of supervisors I've had before that have been my friends. You know my first company they were definitely that family kind of company. But since then I just worked for corporations. And you know the supervisors and friends are not the ones that get invited to hang out at my kids' birthday party or even have a drink with me after work right? So that collegiality I've noticed is you know, kind of forced. It seems like at the job where I work right now because there's some folks that ah I just. 04:46.14 archpodnet Right. 05:00.26 Bill Don't even want to spend more than 5 seconds talking to more than just a you know common high you know, thanks for being a good fellow citizen I have no interest in what's going on with you and don't want to spend any time talking to you or listening to you any more than I must ah and you know the the folks that are. 05:06.86 archpodnet Ah. 05:17.79 Bill Of the higher levels are definitely at that and what's sad is those are the ones who are supposed to be helping and mentoring me. But it's just not. You know the second unlike Fred flintstone now man when that thing when the. Bell rings I slide down the bronosaurus and just get on the subway and just drive away from there man just try to leave it all back. There. So a lot of stuff has changed because early on we were hanging out together. We were camping out there. We were doing projects. Everyone was living together and. There's a couple people that you don't like that you just don't really hang out with and every now and then there were supervisors. They would do really great things. You know, stop work on Friday and folks would hang out and have ice cream or you know have crazy baked good contests instead of the morning meeting. We would sit and eat brownies and stuff and. 06:00.95 archpodnet Ah. 06:04.77 archpodnet Now. 06:06.45 Bill There was just really cool stuff that happened at the smaller place now. It's kind of like if someone offered me a brownie I'd wonder why? Why are you giving me this brownie like what do you mean? like what is this do I owe you something now is it poisoned why? Why are you giving me a brownie because you've never even talked to me once ever and sure enough the minute they. 06:17.88 archpodnet Yeah. 06:23.74 Bill You accept that they ask you to do something or they ask for something or they tell you something that's unsolicited or basically they're just a you know general you know, uncomfortable person to be around and so and and I found I found that the like I was saying before personality I had much more in common with people who are doing cultural resources. 06:35.81 archpodnet Um. 06:41.77 Bill Than people who are professors or work for universities and ah just don't I don't you know, find any you know it just seems like everyone's an actor that's acting something out. They don't ever speak clearly, they don't ever let you know what they're thinking or or what they're. You know what their motivations are and it's just a really you know, really really fake place to work because you know at any at any second any any second that I say on this podcast or anything at work immediately can cause protests. 07:06.10 Doug So that's a quick question. Ah. 07:14.70 Bill Ah, for for just like we don't even know why you know someone wakes up, they're drinking their cup of tea they hear what I say the next thing you know there's some kind of huge battle and you know it's time. It's time for me to go I've got to quit my job everything that I've done is the worst in the world and so no, no one ever speaks? No one's ever. 07:16.70 Heather Oh. 07:16.53 archpodnet Yeah. 07:23.41 archpodnet Right. Right. 07:33.23 Bill Um, ah, true to their word. No one ever says anything out loud that they're actually thinking because they never know what someone else is going to do and you were saying staying in a job. Ah you know longer than you should or whatever that is academia. 07:45.55 Heather Yeah. 07:47.58 Bill Everyone who's made full professor has cracked that state in the job longer than they should have and they're just never ever going to leave right? So when you work in an environment That's like that' there's not going to be friends that are goingnna come out and you know you're not goingnna have colleagues that you're hanging out with and go in camping and stuff with right. 07:55.93 archpodnet Ah. 08:03.96 Doug So just a quick fact. Check you guys are all California based weed's legal there now right? So so that brownie is is a bit more than just a brownie is it not and. 08:03.98 Heather I Think there's a. 08:04.60 archpodnet Yeah. 08:15.44 Bill So yeah and depending on the town. Ah ah, Psychedelic mushrooms could have been decriminalized too so you could be getting something That's you know going to get the truth out of you. 08:19.98 archpodnet Wow, Go ahead other. 08:21.47 Heather Oh boy. 08:28.16 Heather Um, you know I think there's a difference between um I Totally agree with you bill because actually especially now in the workplace for seeing this movement towards a forced culture where companies are constantly trying to sell their culture. And it seems very disingenuous I mean I think that you know sometimes I really wish that that the higher ups would would look and realize and really do a survey that's truly anonymous and realize that this concept of forced culture is um is detrimental and in fact, I personally believe. And this could be a whole other podcast. But I Personally believe it's a form of gaslighting because when people are having an issue in a company and then you had this concept of a force culture where everybody's supposed to act like everything is wonderful and rosy and we love each other and everything it it not only dilutes the true relationships. But. It also makes people wonder well wait a minute like I'm having these problems and I'm not supposed to have these problems because everything's supposed to be wonderful. This company has the most amazing culture ever. You know ever and and everybody's support of each other and and the company only wants the best for its employees and you know when you ah. I Don't think there's anything wrong with the company going that direction and supervisors going that direction and trying to make these inroads towards creating a good comfortable ah supportive culture. But when it's done to check the box so that a company can say they have this. 10:01.24 Heather It feels disingenuous and it does not allow for a counter for people to say you know what? I don't feel this right now and then it becomes gaslighting and so I think a forced relationship is ah is a problem for me my personal. You know I struggled like I said I struggled with it for a while and this is something that just came over time. So what we have and this was actually dictated by other people on the team. Not me, you know they're the ones who started the personal chats over the weekends I mean we were sending pictures. They're sending pictures. Everybody's chatting back and forth laughing with each other throughout the entire week including the weekend and if people want we respect if people want to shut down. We also have people had their phones paid for right? So that makes a difference so you have a work chat and if you don't want to be a part of that work chat you just turn off your work phone. Um, but. I do think that if something like that evolves on a team It's really hard to shut that down and I don't think it's a good thing to shut it down. Um, but people can come and go and they can participate as much as they want. Although I do I do understand all the concerns and just like. You know, like what Bill is saying. He's the one who's he's regular. He's like ah this is this I want to go this far I don't want to go this far and um for his own personal reasons. But I think for us, it's worked but it's something that has happened genuinely over time It's never been something. Okay, like I said. 11:34.51 Heather I'm going to create a culture with our team and it's going to be this this this and this it's just happened over time because we have good people that work hard that genuinely care about each other that love each other want the best for each other and it's hard to keep people away when they feel that way right. And to fight that and to say no, we have to have these lines I Just think that it's something that if you have it. It's something that's really special. Um, and when you were talking about you know supervisors and people getting fired for good reason. Sometimes you have people that are being given. Ah, hard time for the wrong reasons and I'll say that I'll just be I've seen that happen and when you have genuine relationships that have just happened because you're you're good people with the right intentions. 12:28.74 Heather You have you have people that genuinely know you I'm sorry that genuinely know you and are willing to stand up for you and um, that's that's a special thing and so sometimes those things benefit in the long run. And that's not why you have a relationship like that. But I Just I think there's two sides to it and I think that you just have to be very thoughtful in how you interact in the workplace. 13:00.61 Doug And I'm reminded I saw something on 1 of the social media platforms. It's a couple of months back where they're just like yeah if if someone if you're if someone's trying to hire you and they say oh yeah, we're more of a family than ah than a company. You know you're just about to get screwed. 13:15.34 Heather Yes, when people say that I mean it means that they're trying to create something like we have our company had this thing called a no ahole policy and at one point I told I told our vice president I Like honestly I never want to hear that again. 13:17.28 Doug Um, and and I think yeah it. 13:33.89 Heather A company that says they have a no a whole policy has an a whole problem if you have to say you have no a whole policy. Yeah, you have a problem with that I. 13:36.90 archpodnet Yeah. 13:42.23 Andrew Totally all that stuff is so disingenuous I can't agree with you more Heather I hate that false like work culture crap. You know it has to be organic and when it's organic. It can't be beat. You know? so. 13:42.29 Doug Yeah I think. 13:58.31 Andrew It's like I think it's groups who can't get that organic thing happening they do this false thing to try to compete and it never does. 14:03.56 Heather So yeah, yep. 14:07.97 Doug And also it's can be really alienating as well. Um, ah the reason why I'm pretty anti on like developing friendships and work is just because some people might not have the time. 14:12.80 Heather Yep. 14:22.35 Doug Um, I think a couple of us on here have kids and understand that like you know for a good decade plus your life. You don't really have weekends other than like kid-related things and maybe some of your coworkers have kids and that works out too. But um, yeah. There's that sort of exclusion and then also there's some people who just you just want to go to work and then have work end and you don't that's not your thing and I think it can be really It's really tough in that like maybe like 90% of your team is in this close friendship bubble. there's that 10% that's not and there's that I think it's really hard I think some people can do it? Um, but not everyone where you know we've seen I think we've all probably seen it somewhere where someone gets promoted or someone gets a better job or you know. They're not forced to go do the 600 shovel tests in the ah in the rain or the the blizzard because they're friends with the boss or they're friends with whoever's giving out the job. Um, and I think that could cause a lot of problems I don't know if you guys have anything other than like. Some people who who can really compartmentalize and have friendships and make sure it doesn't affect it. But I think it's ah it's a big risk because even if it's not for that reason people will still jump to that reason that they got a better job because of friendship. 15:55.42 Doug And that might not be the case but it's always at risk of the impression which you know and a lot of times. It's your impression your your view of the world that that matters not necessarily the facts and. 16:06.30 Heather I totally agree with you Doug um, and that's another thing that I've struggled with but I'll say um for the people on our team. We have people between the most northern person on our team and most southerly person our team we have about four hundred miles right so we're not going out on weekends with each other that does not happen. Um I do set up. You know things when we go out in the field and we have a nice you know cocktail hour. We go out to dinner but you would do that with the team anyway and I think that you know it's very hard to define friendships. It's hard to control friendships. I mean if you're caring you care for each other and there's all different types of friendships. So anybody who comes into our team can can exercise this collegiality in any way they want and you know sometimes is that unfair. In other in other circumstances. Yes, in our circumstance. It's not because everyone is treated the same way. Everyone's invited to be part of that in the same way and I think maybe our our situation is different because we truly do not um you know we don't go out on the weekends because we're not near each other. Now. We've had baby showers. You know, but in ah in a work setting. You know you're going to do that anyway where you're going. You know some people where you invite people but we would never if we have somebody has a personal um like a a a personal event like a baby shower. Everyone on the team is invited. 17:25.53 archpodnet So yeah. 17:38.67 Heather We've never had that we would never exclude somebody and if somebody decides not to come. There's never any thought of they didn't come for a certain reason we've had people that we have people on our team right now that decide you know that they're not into as much of the interaction in on the weekend. 17:57.30 archpodnet No. 17:58.48 Heather And that's fine and they're not treated any differently but I do think that you know I I think you know if somebody has does not hold themselves is an unfair person if the supervisor is unfair if people on the team hold things against each other. Um, yeah, you know what that is going to be unfair. But that would be unfair whether you have friendships or not. 18:18.28 archpodnet Yeah. 18:18.58 Andrew You hey Heather it almost sounds like you guys operate in a mature adult manner. Yeah. 18:22.62 Heather Kids Thank you, It's hard to define exactly right? We're just respectful of each other. 18:25.81 archpodnet What that's weird. Yeah, all right? Let's ah, call this segment and then we'll pick it back up in segment 3 and we've got some stuff to wrap this up with back in a minute.