00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome to the show. Everyone joining me today is bill in well Northern California the Bay Area Heather in what I'm calling Southern California come on. 00:07.43 succinctbill Yep I'm here I'm with you good morning. Ah. 00:12.12 Heather Central California but that's fine. Ah, good morning or hello everyone thanks for joining. 00:17.80 archpodnet And then and then Andrew I don't know I think he's a little further south. So I'm gonna go ahead and go say Southern California for that one. They get it right? Nice all right all right? so. 00:25.14 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, proudly representing socal. 00:34.45 archpodnet For today's episode at least the first part here we may go the full time on this I don't know but we got a comment from a listener a few months ago and we're just I dropped it in as our as we're cycling through the topics as the hosts go every 5 episode recordings or so which is like two and a half months it comes back around to me. Which is great so I dropped this one in for my topic because I also thought being the end of April as we're recording this ah probably getting into early may as you're listening to this. We're getting into springtime we are getting into summertime in some places and we are definitely getting into inclement weather time. And depending on where you're at if you're working in the in the southeast or or East Coast you're starting to talk about hurricanes here in another couple months in the midwest you're starting to talk about tornadoes already because I don't think you ever stopped talking about tornadoes. It's been a crazy year. Ah, that's just been continuously going which is crazy. But they're just start ramping up and then of course on the West Coast you've got to worry about fires wildfires I mean we're often out in like super remote places and you may not even know the wildfire is sparked off and before it's too late. It could cut off your escape route for wherever you're at the wildfire could so. Before we get into that though, let me go ahead and read this email from a listener and and I didn't get their permission to I didn't ask either but I didn't get their permission to do this I'm just going to leave the listeners' name out of it. Um, but here's what here's what they have to say. Know you've had conversations in the past about disaster preparedness and I'm not sure that we have maybe we have I don't know um, but I'm curious about what other c or m firm's tornado plans are I'm a field tech in Kentucky and 1 of the places I work at over the summer was hit hard by the tornado this last weekend. So again, this was months ago. Ah. This got me thinking about what field crews should be thinking about in terms of safety post-disaster communication plans when cell towers go down meeting points etc. I've never had a meeting that discussed this kind of stuff and my only safety knowledge comes from growing up in Rural North dakota and that's that's the that's the email. So. I'll tell you I've been in North Dakota I've been in rural North Dakota and it is ah yeah, that is a good place to learn about safety because you're going to have Blizzards. You're going to have all kinds of crazy weather coming your way and it's good to good to know what's going on. But um, let's talk about this. And I'm in the civil air patrol which has helped me greatly I was in the navy as well. Which also helped but I'll tell you what I want to start small with this. Okay, first off when you're talking about any of these things teams need to stick together and if they can't stick together because of logistics they need to know where each other is at at all times. 03:17.96 archpodnet And if you need to do that through constant radio communication updates or if you need to do that through some sort of ah there are there are several different devices out there that will constantly report your position to a satellite which others can read and then you can know where everybody's at. Garmin Rhinos will do that. Actually they don't do it through satellite they do it through communication. So it's a radio gps receiver and it will pick up other rhinos and report position through the radio communication. So you know where the other people are on your on your screen. You can see them so that's pretty handy but just knowing where everybody's at. And knowing where those things are really helps out and and just mention briefly the civil air patrol when we're out on a ground mission which means you're in a vehicle or you're in an air mission which means obviously you're in a plane aircraft report back to base at the top and bottom of the hour and ground vehicles report back to base at 15 and 45 after the hour. And they all do it and if and if 1 if 1 ah unit does not report in after several attempts to get contact with them even by other aircraft and other ground personnel. The search stops and now starts looking for them and that's why you always report your position. Your time your direction where you're going now. I'm not saying we need to do that in archeology necessarily. But if it's been. You know a few hours or I don't even know what the time frame would be depending where you're at you need to be in contact with each other first off, that's number 1 for safety heather I see you jumping at the bit here. 04:45.88 Heather No I I love that I actually think that um we have a safety department like that's all they do um and so we have them put together a job hazard analysis. A jh for every project and. 04:52.83 archpodnet Oh. 04:59.85 archpodnet Um, yeah. 05:04.10 Heather You know that's evolved over time. It used to be before we had a safety or we just had 1 person and we we do generally create our own jha. But if we're in a new area. Um, we reach out to the safety ah team. To create and really think about everything that could happen and so we do do work outside of California we do it all over the United States and so they've they've been pretty busy putting together these preparedness plans or safety job hazard analysis plans and it's so it's. 05:23.70 archpodnet Um. 05:40.95 Heather It's a full. It runs the full gamut of everything that could happen and then over time the you know depending on the time of year we switch it up. We switch certain things up that are going to be you know, like right now this is prime Britle Snake season so um I haven't I grew up in tornado. 05:53.64 archpodnet Yeah. 06:00.60 Heather Ah, ah, land grew up in outside of Chicago and you know we were always taught that was one of the instead of fire drills. Actually we had tornado drills every month and so especially during tornado season and it was kind of fun because we get to. 06:03.23 archpodnet Ah, yeah, you know. 06:10.84 archpodnet Um. 06:19.42 Heather You know during certain you know Drills You could do fun things and you don't have to go to class right? But um, but um I think that if your company is so is small because I know there's a lot of small companies and they don't think about these things at all so you kind of have to bring that upon yourself. Um, as a field as a prepared field technician should your company. Do it? Absolutely they should. But when you're sitting in the middle of a dangerous situation and um, the last thing you want to say is well. My company didn't give me what I needed all the tools I needed to be safe here. So Oh Well. Um. 06:55.21 archpodnet Oh. 06:58.80 Heather You know again I think every company should do that it doesn't take a whole lot I mean we have these boiler plates for different types of situations that are put into the Jj or taken out depending on the conditions of the project or you know the area that you're in and the time of year. So I think. I'll just say right now. What I've always been taught if you are outside during a tornado. Obviously you want to find shelter if you can and if you can't find shelter then you find a ravine a very low-lying area. Um underneath a bridge and then you cover your head and do the best you can. So that that's all I'll say just from my experience but my grandfather actually was ended up in ah in a car in a tornado and and and the tornado went right over him and he went into a ditch and but they do say if you can't find shelter. That's the best thing and if there's no low low-lying area. You can't find it right off the bat and you're. 07:42.26 archpodnet Cheese plan. 07:56.17 Heather Seriously in the in the midst of it just get down flat as flat as you can possibly be and if you have anything soft to put over you and then protect your head and and that's how you get through it. But anyway I've talked long enough. 08:05.85 archpodnet Um, ah Andrew. 08:10.18 Andrew Kinkella Ah, but I yeah sure I you know I talk with this this kind of thing about with my students all the time and first I would say archeology is not worth dying for So and yeah, where I met it sounds silly but like. 08:25.72 Heather Amen. 08:29.60 Andrew Kinkella If you're in an area where there's tornadoes and you see a big tornado coming but you're like but you know we got to be in the field today. No, you don't and and this is this is how some of the worst disasters happen right? It's as it's a series of bad choices right? Don't be afraid. To make the right choice in in a bad in in those bad moments that little voice inside is will tell you this is dangerous listen to the little voice you know don't go out I have done this time and time again like. Some in the Crm world but also in obviously my my other archeology realm in the Maya Jungles right in Belize like you you have to listen to that little voice. You know it's dangerous leave um I would I would also say ah identify the real. Ah, dangers because sometimes you get this list of dangers in an area. You know oh it could be this and it could be this and it could be this and some of those like like let's take the jungle. Oh you know there's Jaguars. You're not going to be mauled by a jaguar you know, but killer bees are a real thing. You know. 09:37.85 archpodnet Wow. 09:39.93 Heather Tick bombs Tick Tick Bombs Tick bombs hit yeah 09:40.64 Andrew Kinkella So you have what was that Heather sorry well yes, and like tick bombs and you know which which can become a real thing so I would say prep for the you know for the real dangers that that may be out there kind of on a list and then ah the last thing on this bit Heather brought up ah rattlesnakes. 09:49.99 archpodnet He. 09:59.41 Andrew Kinkella I was out with my students like two weeks ago and I could just smell the rattlesnakes. You know what? I mean you you get out that day and when we got out there in the morning we were gonna be hiking out in the boonies and I'm like oh man rattlesnake season. So I stopped everyone I'm like hey guys what are we gonna do. 10:03.55 archpodnet Oh. 10:03.80 Heather Death. 10:17.89 Andrew Kinkella If I get bitten by a rattlesnake you know and then we role played it and of course their first response was kin killla we're leaving you and we're running away you know, but but the roleplay was great I'm like no no no no no what okay okay I get bitten by rousenake what are we doing? Let's go through it and I had them. You know give a couple. 10:24.11 Heather Yeah. 10:33.70 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 10:37.74 Andrew Kinkella Ah responses and I'm like look first and foremost we call 9 one 1 right away you call 9 one 1 right away and then we figure out how to get me back to the road as soon as possible because time's not your friend. 10:51.21 archpodnet Um, yeah. 10:54.82 Andrew Kinkella We're not going to wrap the wounds. We're not going to look for this snake you know and we we just role played it and this wasn't a long thing this like 3 minutes but then you you feel really good about. Okay, if this did happen we would just snap right into it. 11:01.13 Heather Right. 11:06.34 archpodnet Ah, ah. 11:06.37 Heather Right? I think so so did you ask who was going to suck the bed amount of your womb. 11:10.45 Andrew Kinkella Um, yeah, they they strangely stepped away I don't I'm I'm shocked. 11:12.29 succinctbill Ah, her her her. 11:17.36 Heather I think that? um yeah I the 1 thing that you can do for yourself is absolutely check the weather ahead of time I mean usually you can see especially with tornado weather I mean that's. 11:17.66 archpodnet Ah, yeah. 11:25.15 Andrew Kinkella E. 11:25.62 archpodnet Um, yeah. 11:31.43 Heather They don't just pop out of nothing sometimes they do but not usually usually you can see it. You can feel it you can smell it just like Andrew said I mean although if you're working you know people right now they're they're working all over the place they're traveling ah all over the place to work and so they may not be all that familiar with something like a tornado. 11:35.89 Andrew Kinkella Um. 11:51.42 Heather Sounds like that's the the person that that sent this question and and so it's very new to them. Um, and do your own homework I mean if you're going into an area ah part of the preparedness is doing your own homework. You can't rely on other people. Even if you have the best safety managers you have to take personal. 11:53.10 archpodnet Oh. 12:10.95 Heather Ah, responsibility over your own safety and so be prepared and being prepared is like doing it the day before or you know even maybe a few days before if you know you're going into a different area. So no, it looks like Bill has something to say. 12:21.45 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, go ahead Bill. 12:24.74 succinctbill So Yeah I do I mean be prepared is definitely you know a key thing and then you know we have talked before about Health and safety plans throughout the organization and stuff and. You know I work at a place that has a great health and safety plan but not very many people are actually using it. So. So if you're if you're not even aware that there's the possibility of danger I think that's where we end up in a lot of situations because you know I was. 12:41.60 Heather Okay. 12:41.65 archpodnet E. 12:54.32 succinctbill Hearing you all talk about situations in the field and role-playing and thinking of all those things but I could tell you and you all know that when you go out in the field. Most people are not even thinking that there's a possibility that anything could happen and so you see them carry themselves as if there's no form of danger right? like gray clouds on the horizon. And you're in ah the Southern Arizona desert during the summer they're not even thinking about the fact that it could flash flood in those washes that are on the whole other side of a mountain range and then you're trapped in the vehicle right? So they're not even aware that that's a possibility or. Ah, thunderstorms and stuff and you're walking underneath power lines you're like people aren't even really thinking about the fact that those things could easily spark. They could easily send off you know, ah sparks and you know other stuff that would connect to you even if it's not a lightning thing because the air is just charged that way. And so going back to the tornadoes thing if you're doing a survey in tornado area and you know old timer 1 time told me in Illinois that if I see the clouds turn green underneath that I should you know, really start looking for some kind of safety and I was like. I've never seen the clouds turn green and he goes that's because you've never seen a tornado coming and so his thing was figure out where the root seller or the basement that you're going to hide in and go there. But what if you're surveying right? Like what if you're driving from parcel to parcel. 14:03.96 Heather And. 14:16.86 succinctbill You're caught out in the middle of the road right? So if people aren't really thinking about the potential for Hazards then it's really difficult for them to you know, be prepared or or to mitigate that stuff and then the other thing is if the company is just like relentless. So if it has a chance to snow. And people could get wet and cold out there but like they just refuse to let folks stay at the hotel to see to watch the weather and see if it's going to snow and then crews get out there and not only is it snowing. Everybody's Wet. Everybody's cold people are starting to get sick and everything and you can't see the ground. But everybody's afraid that if they if they go back to the place. The boss is going to yell at them and fire the whole team I mean that's another huge thing too If it looks like there's going to be tornadoes and they're just saying like you need to get out there I don't care risk. It. Whatever just keep working. And you don't have the space to actually say no you know I'm going to use my judgment here. The clouds are turning green I can see funnel clouds. We're going back to the hotel and if you're worried about you know, getting fired because you decided not to go out into a disaster. That's also a very real thing. 15:23.68 Andrew Kinkella Archeology is not worth dying for. 15:25.93 succinctbill I've heard yeah I've heard that yeah I've I've heard that before and then I've heard PS back at the base be like it's only one hundred and twenty five degrees ze what are you talking about? what do you mean? Heatstroke like what's that back in the 70 s had heatstroke and I walked across like radioactive desert. 15:25.95 Heather Ah, that's going to be your mantra. 15:33.93 Andrew Kinkella Oh. 15:34.27 Heather Um, and well. 15:36.29 archpodnet Yeah. 15:41.24 Andrew Kinkella Totally yeah, yeah, you know right? and and it's all half the s 2 Yeah, no. 15:43.48 succinctbill I heattroke and you can look at their eyes. They kind of like dazed and crazy and now they're crop side back in the 70 s and you're like yeah well that was the 70 s dude. 15:51.10 archpodnet And their face can't they came with their face because it's leather. Yeah. 15:51.60 Heather Well, but the 1 the one the 1 thing to start with is osha I mean people should. There's clear clear direction in Osha there's clear direction when you can. It cannot have people working outside in the heat heat indexes humidity. 15:55.29 succinctbill I yeah. 16:06.14 Andrew Kinkella The. 16:10.74 Heather There's clear direction there I mean if you don't have I've been very fortunate to work on some longstanding projects where we had people that were monitoring the humidity and the heat and it made people stop and they were very very safety conscious but you know you guys? Not you guys, but um, in general. I can't say it enough. You have your own personal responsibility to keep yourself safe and that means reading Osha knowing knowing what your rights are and knowing what Osha is not just like these arbitrary rules. They're there for a reason they're there because we understand more about safety now than we did. In the 1970 s or we're more conscious about it now than we were in the 1970 s and so there's these rules there and if you know what those rules are those who are a really good parameter for you to start with and then the other thing I mean I would say for c our managers when when there are people out in the field. Unless I have somebody who's like a crew supervisor who's really really strong I I go out with the crew and I work in my truck and I'm there as like that that way there's no question if people are not quite sure what to do I'm there to. 17:20.14 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 17:26.13 Heather Make sure that they're safe and that they're not taking any any risks and that they don't have to make that decision the decisions off ah off of them. But I do know that not everybody's like that and there are a lot of pis out there that don't consider I'd say a lot I think they're getting fewer and fewer. But. 17:34.97 archpodnet Ah. And did. 17:41.16 succinctbill I Don't know about that. But I I agree with you Heather It's great that you're out there and telling folks you know how to stay safe but at the end of the day people have to eat and people are afraid to lose their jobs and almost every almost every accident I've seen in the field has been. 17:51.48 Heather I agree I. 17:57.26 succinctbill Someone just trying to push through so that they can feed feed themselves and. 17:57.63 Heather Right? That's why I'm there and that what I'm saying is that other managers should do the same thing and that that way. 18:01.33 archpodnet Yeah. 18:08.80 Heather Like there could be so people out there just like you're saying Bill. They could make those kinds of decisions where when they get back and they're injured and I'm thinking or they're not injured and I found out they took a chance and I'm like why did you do that and they look at me because it's not because of me it's because of who they've worked for before and and they have their condition now to. Push themselves beyond where they should and so that's why for me I like to go out there as much as I can so that I can take that off of them. They don't have to make that decision. It's my decision say okay enough. Yeah. 18:39.85 archpodnet Okay, well let's take a break and stay safe while you listen to these affiliates and sponsors go click on them back in a minute.